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charged advance up 5 stories
We had a drill Tuesday where 3 man teams had to advance a 3" charged hose up to the 5th floor of our burn tower.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
No well. No windows. No rope. Just 3 men and a charged line.
We did this sans SCBA, but today we're doing it again, with our packs, on air.
Needless to say, it is a sonofayouknowwhat.
We tried rolling the hose, and that helped, but are there any tips/tricks? I know a big part of it is just plain hard work, but I also want to work SMART, you know what I mean?
If nobody has any ideas, I'd like to know what you think about this one. I don't like it because it eventually spreads out the three guys too far apart, but anyway, here it is. The three FFs start off close to each other, muscling the charged line together up the firs flight and around the first corner. When the line starts to constrict around the corner, the last FF drops back and pulls up more slack at the point of constriction. The other two guys continue together until once again, in another flight or two, the hose constricts around a corner, then the number two guy falls back and pulls up more slack (the number three guy is now a floor below him, helping to push the slack HE created UP to the second guy).
So basically my idea starts off with three FFs together, but as they advance, they peel off the back as necessary to pull up hose.
I know, this is not the ideal way to advance hose. Ideally, if there were no well or window options, I would uncharge the lines and all three guys would go up together with the lines on their shoulders. But it's not my drill, and I have to play by the rules. Any ideas are appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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THis is the video that Jay referred to in his post above:
Jay, use the embed code and you can put the video straight into your post...
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Permalink Reply by PA Firefighter on
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Why in the world would you advance a charged line up five stories??? Your killing your greatest asset, your people. When they get there they won't be any good.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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It took me 3 months just to figure out how to post picks. Now you're asking me to be puter literate too. ;)
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Permalink Reply by Michael Vito on
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Indeed it was hard work for a long haul. Our career FF counterparts (their officers) surprised at this scenario. The building is stripped off of its firefighting facilities. We wish we fight fire in a real building.
Yeah, 2 1/2 would be fine but typically only few we had and used for supply lines at the ground already. 3 inch hose are non-existent in the Philippines and worst fewer fire hydrants. At the picture, those two big fire trucks supporting the ladder truck are water tankers. And two more engines at left not seen at this picture.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Michael,
Great work, stretching that much is VERY labor intensive. I would like to hear more about your set-up. So you stretched 1.5" hose from the the 7th floor upwards. The 1.5" hose was tied into the ladder truck, so the first 7 stories was piped with 3" waterway then reduced to 1.5".
Now you went straight up 11 stories. So given the 10' per story rule that would be 110' of 1.5" hose. What was the total stretch of 1.5" hose from the ladder to the fire? Was my calculations correct?
Using the aerial pipe and then having a straight up stretch reduces the total overall amount of hose to be deployed. And is probably why you were able to have something come out of the other end of the hose. Your GPM must have been very very low though. 1.5" hose has a friction loss of 38 psi per 100' length on flat ground. Going up would have an additional 5 psi per any given floor.
Glad to hear you guys were thinking outside the box. It is clear that without using the aerial waterway your plan with 1.5" hose wouldn't work. The aerial was the savior.
Not to mention the backbreaking work of humping hose over the edge!!!
Hats off and Great Job by our Philippine Brothers
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Thanks FETC,
The 1.5" hose was tied into the ladder truck, so the first 7 stories was piped with 3" waterway then reduced to 1.5".
No it was not pipe through. Unfortunately, that particular ladder truck (E-Darley) has no way to pipe it through to main master stream nozzle. So way lay a 1.5" hoseline from the ground, passing the ladder truck and all the way up. The ladder was use to drop off the firefighters at the 7th floor.
Out of the box...yes, we don't have enough ropes (that short) with us. The fire escape is a bit dangerous no windows, little or no railings in which a person can easily fall off the building (the picture shown above with my hand with cellphone with camera sticking out). The height, darkness and winds added the scary environment. The fire cabinet was already dismantled but a lot of 1.5 single jacket pieces of hose laying around. So we use them to tie the couplings at the side of the building. It's scary doing that and you should have a partner grasping your back.
Now you went straight up 11 stories. So given the 10' per story rule that would be 110' of 1.5" hose. What was the total stretch of 1.5" hose from the ladder to the fire? Was my calculations correct?
I think we stretch the total of 5 hoses 1.5" (50 feet per hose) from the ground up. 4 at the side and 1 for working line at top - so give or take. To setup, I think same idea what Lutan1 video shown below. A FF slowly drops the hoses to the waiting firefighter below. In our case, a lot longer hoses and the waiting firefighter is the top tip of the ladder truck 7th floor.
Your GPM must have been very very low though. 1.5" hose has a friction loss of 38 psi per 100' length on flat ground. Going up would have an additional 5 psi per any given floor.
Yup,that's explain it. The math. FETC, thanks for the info.
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Permalink Reply by 1426 on
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I wonder why you're advancing it charged. Most departments carry LDH attack lines uncharged up to just below the fire floor. Most, also, only use those lines as standpipe connections and then apply the gated "y" with more appropriate attack lines. If you have to do this charged, you may want to use a rope and a hose tool. Send an advance pair up to the target floor-again I recommend the floor beneath the fire floor-, from there, lower the rope and have the man/people on the floor hook it up for hoisting. That would eliminate getting hooked on the corners of the stairwell and provide you with much needed slack on the hose. This may or may not be possible with your staircase. I'm interested to hear what happens.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Ellen Shea on
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All I can think is ...."pant, pant, pant....gasp.....pant, pant, pant.....gasp....."
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followed by :::thud::: when you drop the line, followed by ::::THUD:::: when you hit the floor.
What was the point of this drill again?....
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Paul,
You took the words out of my mouth re: the buddy system.
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