CDL's for driving larger engines? update 10-19-08

Our new engine is a sterling cab, wieghs well over 26000 pounds I'm not sure of the excact wieght and has air brakes. At my day job I have to have CDLs to drive an f-750 that wieghs 28000 pounds and has air brakes. Tn law states any vehicle with air brakes or excedes the wieght limit of 26000 pounds you have to have a class b cdl to drive it. But there is an excemption for emergency vehicles that just doesnt make sense to me. does anyone elses dept. require cdls or anyone think they should. I think you should have to have cdls and have evoc tought by a state instructor before you can drive. Just my opinion.
10-19-08 I contacted The Tennessee DMV and they told me that a non cdl driver could drive an engine to an emergency under the excemtion law but would be breaking the law if they drove back to the station to get fuel or was just out driving. The dmv also if a non cdl driver was involved in an accident driving a large truck they would be driving a commercial vehicle without a license and could lose their license or have to do jail time. They also told me all that was needed was a class be cdl in Tn thats only 2 written test and a short on road driving test.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Buck on October 22, 2008 at 6:27pm

i guess i need to check with our state DMV to see about this cdl

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Permalink Reply by Larry Tamburrino on February 4, 2009 at 2:34pm

A new law in New York has recently been inacted that seems to mirror Tenn. law. Does anyone else have more information on this.

Larry Tamburrino Asst. Chife LDVFD

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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on February 18, 2009 at 9:05pm

This was posted in the group "the volunteers" hope that helped

Permalink Reply by Dale 1 day ago
This needs to be added also: On CDL Requirements

In the Fall of 2008, at the request of local fire departments the Suffolk County Department of Fire, Rescue and Emergency Services contacted the New York State Department of Motor Vehicle to ask what impact the 2005 law had on CDL requirements for the fire service. The response from DMV to the Commissioner makes it clear; “During non-emergency operation however, the police or fire vehicle will be considered to be a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) if it falls within one or more of the definitions of CMV found in section 501-a(4)(a) and a CDL would be required to operate the vehicle.” Most engines, heavy rescue, and aerial apparatus would qualify as a CMV. Therefore, as of the passage of the law in 2005 CDL’s have been required for any fire apparatus that would meet the requirement of a CMV for parades, drills, building inspections, public education events, returning from calls or any other purpose except driving to an emergency. The problems this creates are too numerous to mention."

Just remember this is not a recommendation this is a law in NY state. As much as we disagree with it.

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Permalink Reply by MVFD on April 9, 2009 at 10:43pm

I understand why many of you say all drivers should have a CDL to drive. Personally, I am planning on getting my CDL, but not because of the fire service. In Iowa, I am not required to have a CDL, and for our department, that is a good thing.

Section 321.176A states: The following operators are exempt from the commercial driver's license requirements: ....2. A fire fighter while operating a fire vehicle for a volunteer or paid fire organization.....

And, Section 321.1 defines a "fire vehicle" as: "Fire vehicle" means a motor vehicle which is equipped with pumps, tanks, hoses, nozzles, ladders, generators, or other fire apparatus used to transport fire personnel, fight fires, and respond to emergencies.

Our department appreciates this exemption. We are a small, rural department that responds to an average of 12-15 calls per year. We are primarily a bedroom community and most days we consider ourselves lucky if have enough drivers in town to drive 4 pieces of apparatus to a scene. The majority of our members respond from out of town jobs and will meet the apparatus at the scene. If we were required to have CDL's to operate our apparatus, we would probably be forced to shut the department down. It just isn't realistic for departments like ours.

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Permalink Reply by Jordan on April 10, 2009 at 12:03am

A CDL license is a great asset to any fire apparatus operator. However, it does not make them better. I believe that it is the training given to the firefighter by their department and the continuous driving experience by driving frequently under non-emergency conditions as well as emergency conditions that will enhance their skills. I have watched CDL drivers not stay in between the lines on a road, almost hit people, and much more. The only good thing a CDL holds is that in the eyes of the law and those with a lack of knowledge on what makes a good driver, is the ability to answer a very dangerous question if you ever find yourself in court. But, remember this, CDL or not, you can still go to jail if someone dies because of an accident your apparatus is involved in. Be smart, stay safe, and slow down.

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Permalink Reply by Fireyladd - Retired Chief Sharp on April 10, 2009 at 12:12am

Jordan, well said. The unfortunate issue is some Departments lack of policy and oversight that allows a person to join the Department and drive an apparatus without any training or experience whatsoever. This is justified by lack of personnel and a blind eye. Yowsers! A recipe for disaster. If Departments took care of business and actually trained their prospective drivers there would be no need for State agencies to enact regulations to protect the public from us.

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Permalink Reply by PFC Harmon on April 10, 2009 at 10:24pm

No, a CDL will not automatically make a better driver. The training and experience from getting a CDL will expose the standard firefighter to things that they normally don't deal with. Could the drivers at your department pass a CDL test if they went tomorrow?

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Permalink Reply by Mick Shelley on April 13, 2009 at 11:54am

In the state I live in you have to have a class E lic. A class E lic. is to operate a vehicle over 22,000 pounds. A class E lic., is for a NON Commerial vehicle, I thought a Fire Truck was a comm. vehicle, it was the same test that I would of had to take if I was applying for a CDL, so I feel as if I should have received a CDL. with the indorsment for air brakes, I didn't even get that. It seems to me that it once again all about money, not the lic.

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Permalink Reply by morris washburn on April 13, 2009 at 12:30pm

Hello Lt.Harmon, Well here we all go again !! as you know how I feel about the CDL B on Fire trucks is a big YES Tanker also . I live here in Tn as well and just to CYA I would get the CDL B . I have a CDL A w/57 restiction . I had no idea it was a government only .I drive a school bus, have 3 endorsments. I think some pll are getting the wrong impression ,but in NEW YORK STATE (they will push it ) have to have a CDL B sooner or later . I also feel that when the Government took over the licenses in the country they made it manditory for ALL truck drivers to Have a CDL A ,B or C. But what they for got was to say that thier is JUST 1 Licenses,in the whole country,not a different one in each state ,with different laws. this is my 2 cents . But I do know 1 thing !! My ass is covered when we return from a fire or an accident I can run the truck , we have maybe 4 guys to drive any CDL truck we have here in McEwen.

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Permalink Reply by jonathan on April 13, 2009 at 12:42pm

you have to have your cdl to drive our tanker but thats the only truck you need a cdl for

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Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on April 13, 2009 at 1:18pm

Here in California, a CDL type license is required to run the apparatus. You must prove to the state that you know the laws as it pertains to operation of an emergency vehicle. You also must have a special endorsement to operate an ambulance as well. For the fire rigs, its a class B firefighter. It allows you only to operate fire apparatus. you cannot go out and get a job with it. In my last department in Washington, we did the EVAP training built by VFIS, as well as 8 hours per rig and an annual drivers rodeo. It worked alright, but I have to admit, there's a lot of people driving that probably shouldn't have been. I know it costs a little extra to get the extra licenses, but honestly, after being a driving instructor for a few years, I'm all for a standardized training requirement. I like the idea that every driver from San Diego to Redding has to complete the exact same thing, and I know what training requirements they've had to meet. Makes it a lot like wildland and the NWCG. It standardizes everything, takes the "good ol' boy" system out of the mix, and makes the training the same across the board. I can pull an engine driver from L.A. and put him next to a driver from San Francisco, and based on their license, I know what they're qualified for. I don't have to call anyone, or ask for copies of any programs. I know its a pain, and it takes some power to license from the local depts, but it also decreases the liability on the dept's themselves, and decreases their workload to come up with a good, solid program that not only meets the requirements of training, but saves them in court if it ever comes to that point.