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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on November 8, 2007 at 3:12pm

So Ill start this off since i put it up.

Kinda fair right...

So I am a 40 year old career firefighter 21 years on the job. Started as a vollie in an all white department, in an all white town. Our school had 4 black kids and 1 Kevin H.,was a close friend...and yeah we discussed race in depth in the mid 80's. Played lots of pranks on each other like taking Kevin into a white country teen bar...in return he took me to an all black inner-city roller rink..and yeah the music stopped, really!
So I tested for Ft Worth FD in 85 after graduating HS. Scored a 96 and didnt get past the test, and yep affirmative action was the reason. was I bitter, yeah a little. Did I dwell on it, no, I joined the Air Force as firefighter and the rest is history.
In 1985 in the south the only way testing for city departments was going to give a guy a break was AfAct, and while it didnt help me, it gave guys who would never get a fair shot...well a fair shot.

I work in a multicultural department that has Black/White/Hispanic firefighters. Probably more Latin then the other two, but its a pretty good mix. Rank structure has:

White FC
2 Latin AC's
1 White AC
1 Mixed BC
1 White BC
Captains are evenly made up of all three. So its a pretty diverse department.

Now race is something that is discussed daily...and not always in a good way, but is it anywhere?
we talka mong ourselves and joke about it mostly, but there are regular discussions in the department and while we have problems, its never the real issue.

Personally I love debate and open discussions. I want to knwo why people who are different think how they do. I listen to oposing party debates to understand waht they think and why they vote the way they do...Do I agree with them...mostly not, but we all need to open our ears and listen more and talk less.

remember god gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth. Think there was a reason for that .

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Permalink Reply by Spanner 122 on November 8, 2007 at 5:46pm

2. What is your experience good or bad with this issue?
i.e., do you feel that you didnt get a job(promotion) because of affirmative action, you lost a job(promotion) because you were of color, etc...
No. I'm a woman. lol Juuusssst kidding. I heard talk of possibly fast tracking a couple of women in order to have female officers sooner than later and I publicly said I would fight it 100%. No need for it, things should take their course naturally (not really the topic at hand).
As for my experiences with other races on the job (if that's what you're asking), there really haven't been any experiences, I work with others who are not necessarily white like me and that doesn't really change anything.

3. Do you work in a department that is monochromatic(one color)?
No... Black, Asian, Italian, Portugese, Spanish, Native and French. Many of them hired before this new need for a Diverse workplace.

4. Do you work in a department that is primarily one color, or is it mixed race?
See #3

5. Do you discuss race at work? If not why not?
No, not very often. There seems little need to, unless something comes up. It's not ignored, it's just not considered to be a big deal. I have had the "People tell me I was hired because I'm black" conversation with a police officer (and ex CFL'er), but not with any of the firefighters. (and he was not hired because he's black... he's an awesome role model of what a person can do if he chooses the right path!!)

6. Do you think talking about racial issues with people of other races is helpful to your point of view?
Helpful TO my point of view, not necessarily, but helpful in forming a better understanding of what others think about certain situations, certainly. Sometimes there are issues I wouldn't have thought of because I am not directly involved or affected, so it's always interesting to hear another perspective.

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on November 10, 2007 at 10:40am

1. Agreed.
2. It has never been an issue for me or our fire department. However, your point raises issues about our selection and promotion process. It is written with very broad language and were a person of color or gender to apply, they might complain that the process is flawed. I will be looking at that. However; we have two females who have joined in the last two years. Both are doing very well.
3. Yes.
4. One color/two genders.
5. Sometimes; usually when a recent discrimination case is in the news.
6. As long as it doesn't sound too liberal or condescending to the person (s) that you are discussing it with.
7. Can I think about that?

Did you notice how quiet the other thread on racism has gotten with regards to the topic? I realize that I was one of those taking on a couple of the posters about their "other issues", but I have plenty of discussion left for this topic that has been an issue before and I am sure it will be going forward. All's that it takes is a practical joke or an off-hand remark or someone who believes that their civil rights were violated and BOOM-tomorrow's headline.
We need more discussion here.

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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on November 11, 2007 at 11:17pm

Art,

I couldnt agree more.

The sooner we stop with the PC crap and talk to each other, the sooner things can start normalizing.

What happened to the 80's when Movies like Blazing Saddles and History of the World Part 1 had fun with...not I say "Had fun with", not made fun of our differences and stereotypes. Huge difference here in the two.

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Permalink Reply by howard on November 11, 2008 at 9:39pm

well I started on the volunteer side now a career /paid fire fighter. I have been out in the field for almost a year. where I work I am the only black/African American in the fire service. there is myself , 1 Mexican American and and 5 women out of 135 fire and rescue personal. when I took my agility test I heard remarks like " hell I don't have a chance now" "" all he has to do is spell his name right and he's in" . I got hired and at 40 years 6 ft 1 270 I had to work harder than anyone in class to prove myself. i did it i received the leadership award when my daughter pinned my badge on my shirt it made it all worth wild . when my wife sat in the auditorium during the ceremony she just looked around and was in awww that there where no other blacks in the building . .when I was a volunteer I heard people say look there's the token blk chief.( worked my way up thru the ranks to asst chief) I paid it no mind when I here it. actually makes me work harder. I still see it I have been to a few homes in this past year where the people looked at me like why is this blk man in my house. i even had 1 patient tell me i dont like black people but he didnt say it that nicely and I wanna say im here because you called 911 but I gotta keep my mouth shut and do my job. racial issues still happen and will be around for a long time. all I can do is do my job . im sure there are a few people that don't like me for whatever reason or belief they have. people have the right to their opinion and i cant change yours. we don't have to hang out after work but for 3 days a week my life is in your hands and yours in mind.wach my back and I watch yours. we all go home at the end of shift.. don't get me wrong, i am not mad , disgruntled or one to play any kind of race card if you can do the job do it. if you know you cant do the job and take a spot for a pay check just because its a good job that's where the problem comes in . well i think ive said enough everyone stay safe

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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on November 12, 2008 at 2:02am

1. Couldn't agree more.
2. In my volunteer dept I have very little experience with race issues, only gender. ALL of the officers above my rank are men, younger, with less experience, less senority.
3. My FD is one color, all white men & me. There are 2 other women who are associate members. We haven't had others apply. There are not too many other races living in the area. Others who do reside in our district are professionals at the 2 hospitals or the university in the city, students, Doctors, surgeons, lawyers or professors who don't have time or are simply not interested in public service. Most people don't really think about who works in emergency services until they need them.

4. Questions 3 & 4 are the same thing.

5. In my department, no we don't discuss race. There is no point. We accepted a Latino who was transferred & moved out of the area not long after he joined. Great guy who is probably a really good firefighter in another place now. A couple of African American men joined a couple of years ago but didn't stay long either. They both seemed very interested & we all liked them both. The wives weren't happy about all the time they spent away from home hanging around with the guys, training & running calls and we lost both of them. I guess that happens no matter what race you are. We seem to loose several members for the same reason. Families should be your first priority.

6. I'm not sure what you mean here. At the university where I am employeed the staff is very diverse.
We discuss customs, holidays, food, philosophies and traditions as well as religions. I know more about how the rest of the world works than most people where I live because I have been exposed to more types of people. I suppose you could call that a point of view. The university is seldom closed for religious holidays because not everyone observes the traditions we do. Our break between Christmas & the first of the year is between semesters. Most of the student population is off campus during that time anyway. That week is when the staff takes the days off for holidays that other state employees get during the year when we are open. My friends are black, latino and from India, the Middle East, China, Japan, Tiwan, Russia and England. The way of life in this area (OH/WV/KY) is different from other areas of the country, so folks from anywhere else often may as well be from another country; :) or so the folks from New York, San Francisco & Chicago tell me.

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Permalink Reply by Darren Hyson on December 17, 2008 at 6:42am

When it comes to race in the fire department I have seen differences when it comes to culture and preferences while living together at the station. Not really a diffence when it comes to doing the job. When a job gets done it is done and i havent seen a diffence when it comes to the person who did it. Now in regards to diversity in my department, that is another story which my comments further down will expalin.

I do not work in a department that is one color, it has members of differnet ethnic groups.

We discuss race at my station and it has been helpful with us understanding one another.

These are some points we discussed at my station:

What is diversity?
What do we mean when we speak of diversity? Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Compliance Office offers one definition:

"Diversity refers to human qualities that are different from our own and those of groups to which we belong; but that are manifested in other individuals and groups. Dimensions of diversity include but are not limited to: age, ethnicity, gender, physical abilities/qualities, race, sexual orientation, educational background, geographic location, income, marital status, military experience, parental status, religious beliefs, work experience, and job classification."

Diversity as a concept focuses on a broader set of qualities than race and gender. In the context of the workplace, valuing diversity means creating a workplace that respects and includes differences, recognizing the unique contributions that individuals with many types of differences can make, and creating a work environment that maximizes the potential of all employees.

Diversity is also about having the long term goal that the city public safety departments should generally reflect the population of the city it serves in all its dimensions.

Diversity is broader than affirmative action and is voluntary (i.e., it is not "strictly necessary" to incorporate diversity concepts in order to meet federal requirements). Emphasizing diversity moves a department beyond considerations of only race and gender in its efforts to achieve an inclusive work environment.

While affirmative action and equal employment opportunity focus on employment practices, the concept of diversity extends to the work environment, including individual attitudes and behaviors. Yet diversity is related to affirmative action and equal employment opportunity, as there is a direct relationship between individual attitudes and behaviors, and employment practices. Diversity workshops can help managers learn a variety of options to enhance diversity, and to understand how to consistently apply fair employment practices and procedures.

Actions that promote diversity for a department are those that lead to a work environment that maximizes the potential of all employees while acknowledging their unique contributions and differences.

Why is diversity important?

When a building goes up in flames, rational people don't care about the race of the firefighters who drag them to safety. Competence is all that matters. That said, it doesn't mean race should be ignored. Nor should an emphasis on competence be an excuse for failing to take reasonable steps to increase the number of minority firefighters.

While a raging fire knows no color, the taxpayers and residents of a city do. They ought to believe that they and people who look like them are a part of the tapestry of the city. Including them in public service as firefighters in numbers that reflect the changing face of the community advances that reasonable goal.

Educating officers and firefighters on how to work effectively in a diverse environment helps a department prevent discrimination and promote inclusiveness. There is evidence that managing a diverse work force well can contribute to increased productivity. It can enhance the organization's responsiveness to an increasingly diverse world of customers, improve relations with the surrounding community, increase the organization's ability to cope with change, and expand the creativity of the organization.

Good management of a diverse work force can increase productivity and enhance a department's ability to maneuver in an increasingly complex and diverse environment.


Solution
"The best person for the job" is a phrase that is used to ignore and devalue diversity. There is nothing wrong with wanting the best person for a job, but does that mean that we have to ignore diversity and the importance and benefits of it? Does that statement mean that we ignore the goals and wants of the community we serve? Does that mean that we ignore what has been proven to be an asset to our country and any organization that embraces diversity? Does that mean we ignore the city's and our department's diversity goals? The answer is no! It is possible to achieve diversity goals while going for the best person for a job.

The relationship of diversity, equal employment opportunity, and affirmative action
Although equal employment opportunity, diversity, and affirmative action are all different, they are interrelated. Each is directed toward achieving equal opportunity in the workplace. Diversity and affirmative action each broaden the concept of equal employment opportunity in different ways. Diversity, equal employment opportunity, and affirmative action together will provide a strong foundation for a department's efforts to achieve a fair and inclusive workplace.

Equal employment opportunity
Equal employment opportunity is the core concept that unifies diversity and affirmative action efforts; that everyone should have equal access to employment opportunities. A city and it's department is supposed to adhere to state and federal equal employment opportunity laws, which prohibit discrimination based on a variety of characteristics. In addition to race and sex, these characteristics include: color, national origin, religion, physical or mental ability, medical condition (cancer-related), ancestry, marital status, age, sexual orientation, status as a covered veteran, and on the basis of citizenship.

Affirmative action
Affirmative action was developed because of the need to take "affirmative action" to begin to reverse historic patterns of employment discrimination against minorities and women.

Federal regulations require the use of race, ethnicity, or sex in limited circumstances, such as when analyzing the work force to identify areas of underutilization of minorities and women, and establishing goals in affirmative action plans on that basis. When goals exist, a department should undertake targeted recruitment efforts to ensure that underutilized minorities and women are represented in the applicant pool.

Fairness vs. equal treatment
Many people think that "fairness" means "treating everyone the same." How well does treating everyone the same work for a diverse staff? For example, when employees have limited English language skills or reading proficiency, even though that limit might not impair their ability to do their jobs, transmitting important information through complicated memorandums might not be an effective way of communicating with them. While distributing such memos to all staff is "treating everyone the same," this approach may not communicate essential information to everyone who receives them. It is easy to see how a staff member who missed out on essential information might feel that the communication process was "unfair." A similar effect takes place when Battalion Chiefs disseminated important business information through chiefs notes session with their own personal biased spin on it.

A communication process or technique that takes account of the diverse opinions of various issues among the staff might require extra time or effort to make certain that everyone understands important information. Such efforts on the part of supervisors and managers should be supported and rewarded as good management practices for working with a diverse staff.

What do we want
We also want the best person for the job in a department that is diverse and reflects the community it serves. Reasons for the slow progress are no doubt complex, but it's hard to believe that minorities aren't interested in these jobs or lack the intellect and physical ability to fight fires. We need to stop the self inflicted wounds we are doing to ourselves in the fire service by ignoring diversity goals.

"The test of courage comes when we are in the minority; the test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority".

- Theologian Ralph W. Sockman

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