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Controled Structure Fires For Training
We need to get some live fire training in our department but with all the accidents we have been hearing about we are worried about taking the risk of burning a structure for training. How many of you do controled structure burns for training and what are some of your guide lines?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by firechief911 on
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we just did one i posted pics 1st we get owner to sign a release for tree or shrub damage and we insure they own the property . also we make sure nothing is to close that might belong to anyone else that could be damaged
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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If you update your training on "Conducting Live Fires" and get up to date on NFPA 1403...then you will cover all the basis...there really is a lot to check to cover your butt....There was actually a Chief that went to jail for manslaughter due to a training death......Stay safe...........Paul
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yes exterior attack we dont live fire train in an old house to many things can go wrong
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Permalink Reply by mike wright on
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We will burn structures but with no one inside. We use a smoke machine for internal attack simulation. When we light the fire everyone stays out and is accounted for. This is the only way we do live burns.
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same here
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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In Jersey you have abetter chance of meeting the almighty then getting a permit to live burn,
Our academy does live burn in a sim room with wood palettes but thats about it as well as propane stuff
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Permalink Reply by Wes Anders on
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We were planning on doing it just like you sugest. Thought we might do some ventalation practice on the structure first then burning it and doing some pump ops and some fire streams training outside the structure.
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The main issue with going to a training facilty is getting people to go. The closest live burns near us are in Canyon Texas which is about 120 miles from us. They have a good two night school coming up in a few weeks.
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thats a great way to do it
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I want to thank everyone for your input.
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loved every minite of it
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Wes,
I have run many live fire training's using an acquired structure. I have been asked to run other fire department's live burn trainings also. I live in New Hampshire and we are still allowed to burn an acquired structure which provides realistic training compared to using a concrete burn building.
Acquired structure training is obviously more dangerous than using a commercial burn building. The OIC- person in charge, must be able to read the building, provide an inspection report of the age, condition and quailty of structure's stability. (Not many people can afford an engineer's report) Not every structure is ripe for use with a 1403 burn either. Sometimes you have to say sorry, can't burn this one. But in my opinion, right building provides un-obtainable conditions that are very beneficial when providing live fire training.
My homepage has many pictures in the slideshow from 1403 burns and the last one I did was an older 10 room farmhouse. Circa 1900 plaster/lathe walls. I was able to get 6 burns in an upstair's bedroom, 6 kitchen fires, and one big living room-family room burn. The trick is to read the building, understand the construction, fire travel, ventilation is key, and we always pick the burn rooms and double sheetrock the burn rooms. With all the burns we had at the last one, it still never penetrated the walls or ceilings.
I use NFPA 1403 to the letter, it has checklists and covers all aspects of running the training burn. We have to get the structure hazmat abated before hand (asbestos removed). The Department of Environmental Services also has to sign off on the structure and any environmental impact on the area. If you do not own NFPA 1403 you really should buy one if you are planning to run a live fire training. It covers all live fire trainings, not just acquired structures.
BTW: All the videos you see on youtube burning accelerants, furniture/carpeting; and/or rolling in with an engine to pull lines are NOT 1403 burns. The document covers everything from pre-burn, instructors, qualifications, pre-requisite firefighter training levels, removal of items from the structure, fuels, water supply, etc.
And yes someone has been sent to jail for not understanding that NFPA 1403 exists, after killing and injuring members of his department. Let me know if I can assist you in anyway. Best of luck
Bill
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