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Preconnects. Is It Me or Do We Seem to be Stuck In The Past?
Recently, I have started to research preconnects, and what types are out there in use. Well, to my surprise not much has changed in the many many years that I have been in the service. My department currently uses the basic two types that everyone else uses. This being the minuteman, and the S-load(triple layer). In these changing times, I know there has to be something better, but go figure, not many are up for the challenge or the change. Here is the problem: last house fire, the S-load was laid out in the front yard, we were deep inside the structure needing more hose, come to find out, when someone supplied our truck, the 5" supply-line was laid on top of our pre-connect. I think a preconnect needs to have (3) basic things:
1) speed of deployment in any location 2) minimum of 50' of usable hose at the door of the house, front of car, whatever 3) Easy to repack for our Dummed down fire service. We all know that if there is a way to screw up the load, they will do it, especially when 95% of our job doesn't deal with fire. So, can you help a brother out? ONE other thing, we have bumper crosslays,, yes were here to help the vertically challenged, that fits 150' 1 3/4 side by side.
OK- Just to clarify some things, the Supply line issue, we address that. That was used here more to point out, that with the layout of the S-load, things can happen to it, and that it takes up alot of room in your front operation area... This discussion was persented to challenge you all,, invoke thinking, not point our errors or faults...WE HAVE MORE THEN ENOUGH LAZY BOY QUATERBACKS
1) speed of deployment in any location 2) minimum of 50' of usable hose at the door of the house, front of car, whatever 3) Easy to repack for our Dummed down fire service. We all know that if there is a way to screw up the load, they will do it, especially when 95% of our job doesn't deal with fire. So, can you help a brother out? ONE other thing, we have bumper crosslays,, yes were here to help the vertically challenged, that fits 150' 1 3/4 side by side.
OK- Just to clarify some things, the Supply line issue, we address that. That was used here more to point out, that with the layout of the S-load, things can happen to it, and that it takes up alot of room in your front operation area... This discussion was persented to challenge you all,, invoke thinking, not point our errors or faults...WE HAVE MORE THEN ENOUGH LAZY BOY QUATERBACKS
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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Here is the problem: last house fire, the S-load was laid out in the front yard, we were deep inside the structure needing more hose, come to find out, when someone supplied our truck, the 5" supply-line was laid on top of our pre-connect.
No need to go look for new pre-connect loads when your problem lies within the supply line being poorly deployed at your last fire. Now not actually being at your fire, it is not to say your pre-connect line may have been poorly deployed as well. Firefighters who short stretch and not prepare the line before battle set themselves up for failure too. We currently use the same loads being a Minuteman, the Triple Load and the Bundle.
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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on
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why mess with a good thing
if it aint broke dont fix it
or my personal favorite
GO FIGURE maybe those damned old guys did know what they were talking about
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Permalink Reply by Jason Brooks on
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In the dumbed down age of the fire service, the triple layer load (in my opinion and use), seems to be the easiest to use for the average person. Most departments are also seeing smaller and shorter members. Mattydale and minuteman loads can be very cumbersome to a lot of those people. I have seen guys try to pull entire skids off of trucks and the hose weighs more than they do. Training is a big issue. The issue of laying the supply over it is a much bigger problem than you may even be looking at. For anyone to be that inept to impeded the lifeline of an interior crew, intentional or accidental, is unacceptable in the first place. There are way too many guys getting hurt or killed by lack of training and stupidity on the fire ground. This falls into that category. The other issue is to have an outside person to shag hose, this will allow them to be eyes in the rear and help to move hose into the structure as well.
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Permalink Reply by Ron Ayotte on
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It's a training issue.
It's an apparatus issue.
It's a personnel issue.
It's an equipment issue.
It shouldn't be an issue at all.
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Permalink Reply by Mark W on
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Its not just this incident. Let me lay another problem, your serving an area of town, where, very rarely, the front yard is free of cars or other obstructions. The S-load needs space to deploy, this aint happening in these neighborhoods. Its time for a change. hey if I can change after 25yrs I think most others can change too...
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Sometimes the pre-connect is not the best option. There is also doing a size up to determine if the preconnect will be enough or if it will come up short. Nothing worse than being in and you run out of hose.
As for the way the preconnect is loaded, that will depend upon the dept. We have a few preconnects on each pump and have different loads. The 2 speedlays are regular flat load with a loop at the halfway point on each side. A FF grabs the nozzle and pulls the loop until they stop, then they straighten it out so there is no "spaghetti". We have a 2 1/2" "blitz" line which is 200 ft in a minuteman load.
When I was a volly, the cross lays were higher up and we solved that issue by essentially doing a flat lay, but had 2 larger loops. A FF would grab the nozzle, loop the hose around their shoulders, like a backpack, and deploy the hose. One side will stop, you drop that and keep going until the other side stops.
What gets used more and more for us is the "Chicago" lay or "lead"line. Basically 100 ft of 1 3/4" loaded like a highrise pack, attached to a gated wye and then about 400" of 2 1/2". Works great for apartment fires and homes set back where a preconnect may not be enough. It also makes for a quick transition for a a larger line if needed.
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Permalink Reply by TG on
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I don't think the problem lies with the preconnect, it lies with being aware of your equipment and apparatus, planning, and training. Let's face it, preconnects can handle 95% of most fires quickly and safely. However, the other 5%. When you pull up to a commercial building,townhouse, or apartment building with fire showing on the third floor or fifth floor and the parking lot is packed with cars you should have an alternate way of deploying a longer or bigger length of hose. This can be accomplished in many ways, but it is up to you to see what works best for your community. Capt. Bill Gustin from Miami-Dade FD has some great articles in Fire Engineering on advancing hoselines to upper levels. Stay safe!
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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You nailed everyone of them Ron.
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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
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"Bring us another drink over here, honey."
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Permalink Reply by Oldman on
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"the 5" supply-line was laid on top of our pre-connect"
Don't sound like a pre-connect problem to me. I'd find out who dropped the 5" and kick him/her in the division C.
"I think a pre-connect needs to have (3) basic things"... the minuteman, and the S-load, (we call it a speed load) are the ones which come closest to meeting your criteria. Given the bed space, I'm not sure other than a flat load what else you could use.
"help the vertically challenged" how about a step stool?
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Permalink Reply by Wade Seely on
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we have started using a modified minuteman, not because it gets us more hose, but because our guys couldn't remeber to flip the shoulder load over and presto speghetti. the modified allows for a grab n go lay.
TCSS
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Permalink Reply by Douglas C Stewart on
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Mark
There are a number of things we can do to improve the deployment and advancement of acrosslay. You are right on track, but what about easeof deployment. Depending on the department structure, how often do the lines get deployed by the same firefighters. Is it the case that a volunteer department sees a number of people pulling the preconnect. I prefer the minuteman load for several reasons. It allows me to have that 50-100 foot at the door and allows me to get a better picture of how much hose I will need inside the structure. The triple load usually gets turned into spaghetti in the front yard. Maybe crosslays are not the answer in some communities. There is a lot to consider there as well. Street size, access to the structures, and structure set backs. Maybe some departments should look at going back to rear hoseloads. So I have even more to throw at you. You mentioned the supply line. I like to see a supply line through a front intake. That way it does not create problems like you describe. This also allows the second engine to respond from a different route and not play follow the leader. If you do not utilize front or rear intakes, then it shuld be a consideration to use the opposite side intake as where crosslays are deployed. Just some random thoughts.
Doug
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