Fire service/EMS ethics . . . .

I really am new to the site, but I am interested to find out what other people's thoughts are on Fire service/EMS ethics. . . .

Let me explain. . .

Currently I am a vol. FF here in MA, district 7. To be a FF in MA we are required to become NFPA FF I &II certified even on vol. departments. So those of us whom have been in EMS/FF service for a while are attending the required schooling.

In our class we have one individual whom has done nothing but try to undermine classmates, the instructors and even the course itself.

I recently had a discussion with her about this and she told me that she doesn't understand the need for any FF to learn basic operations of sprinkler systems, or how alarm sys work etc. She is also upset at the fact that she has been dressed down by a few instructors becuase she is having a hard time keeping up with the class work load and her full time job and she thinks she should be cut slack for it. Furthermore, she also is upset becuase she is having "equipment issues." See she is complaining that the rear brim on her "bucket" is too far back and when we conduct search and rescue drills she can't be on her knees and see forward becuase of her SCBA.

Now aside from the obvious issues this person has, I need to hear any opinions out there. I have told her that I think she is an idiot for thinking everyone is out to get her. She thinks she should be cut some slack becuase she is a woman, and I don't believe that in this profession that is acceptable. She believes that becuase she does not want to be a career FF that there is no reason why she be equally trained as the rest of us are, and she doesn't see any reason why she can't just repspond to a structural tone and hump hose while the rest of us go inside.

Anyone have any ideas on this? Am I the one off base here? Or is this person really difficult? Also, is this a common frame of mind? Have others run into this type of individual on there departments?

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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on May 8, 2008 at 3:55pm

She needs a dose of reality....."This is the way it is and if you don't like then go down the road".....this is my Chief's favorite saying....think it fits your situation perfectly...She probably has "humped" a few too many hoses and has that attitude problem.....stay safe...and in my opinion stay away from her at any fires...a person like this will get you killed.......Paul

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on May 8, 2008 at 4:05pm

I did notice my carefully thought out post was completely ignored.... Hmmmmm, wonder why. :)

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on May 8, 2008 at 4:07pm

and I find your post to Sandy (the frequent whiner) in the other forum humorous Tim.

Reply by Tim 2 minutes ago
Sandy,
I know how you feel, I am in a situation similar where I do not get along with someone as well. When I brought the issue forward here on this site, I am getting slammed by several people here on this site, they think I am being a jerk.
My thoughts are to try and approach this other person, (male or female) and try to work things out without dragging the higher-ups into it. If you cannot, well you have 2 choices, deal with her or say something to your superiors. I personally dont like putting up with this stuff, since this is supposed to be a more professional field, but as I am finding out, that is not always the case.
As I have been told on this site by others, "we only hear your side of the story...." well thats true here too. Without knowing the full story I can only assume that you are frustrated, as I am too.
If you figure out an answer let me know. . . . .
As far as I can figure, if you don't at least work SOME kind of a solution out with this person, this will get worse, and the situation will rear it's ugly head at the worst time.
just take everything you get here with a grain of salt, lol, so far it seems though that the few replies you have gotten are at least adult in their manor, which is better than what I have gotten.
Good luck and let me know how it works out

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on May 8, 2008 at 4:17pm

Makes it much more humorous when you realize that folks like us have forgotten more than they have learned...

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Permalink Reply by Tim on May 8, 2008 at 4:19pm

engine
I am sorry; i did read your post, and I do not think that you were being scathing at all. You were expressing your opinion in the best way possible and I thank you for that. I have been thinking on some of the things you did say, I dont want you to think that i am implying that i know everything, becuase i know i dont. but what i do know is that my department runs sevral calls a week, as does this other person's. Half of this other department's calls require our mutual aid. and there in lies my concern.
You do bring up a good point that the instructors will take care of the situation, thats why she has already been put on probation. I know it is not my job, but thanks for reminding me. I guess my real issue is the lack of proper attitude reguarding the situation, and how this person feels that they deserve special treatment. In my mind, I deal with the same things that she does but I am not recieving special treatment so why should she? Lastly, although I am interested in my learning curve and advancement, for the past year i have been on the dept, and in this training class most recently, it has been drilled into us that if one person fails then we all fail. So although its nice to worry about JUST my training it has been made clear that the instructors want us to deal with the group's issues internally.
So with that said, is it your opinion that I should just distance myself?
And I appreciate the thought you put into this and though you may feel your were being harsh you were not. I felt that you delieved your message well, and in an adult manor.

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Permalink Reply by 81fyrman on May 8, 2008 at 5:49pm

there is obviously some bad blood between some people in this discussion. Lets get the first thing out of the way. The bottom line is NFPA "REQUIRES" Her to be FF I/II, no exception. I dont know any depts that this doesnt apply too. If she cant pass the course then its time for her to look for options outside the service. This is no different than being required to be EMS sertified.
now, once she passes the class, she can talk to her commanding officer and attempt to work out the issue w/ her equipment. Also she can discuss the option of jobs that dont require her to wear SCBA while on the fire scene, pump operations, water tender, ect.
As far as calling her an idiot... It was not the best choice of words, beside that point, the writers attempt was to make her understand that the class was not out to get her. Her instructors get down on her due to the fact they have a job to do... teach people to be fire 2 certified firefighters. a position that places alot of pressure on them. They have to make sure people are the best trained possible, or people may get hurt or killed.
She doesnt need any slack cut to her for being a woman(thats a cop-out) nor does she get any slack for working full-time. alot of us work full-time and went to ff I/II as well as ems classes ( I just finished my EMT-B a yr ago, I worked full-time and had 50% custody of my children)
I have worked on 2 depts, I work with male and female ff/emt's full-time and volunteer(paid-call here) we all are trained to the same standards and have seen a few pass due to not meeting the standards. this has had nothing to do w/ gender, its not being able to do the job.
Now, lets stop bashing eachother and find some options to help a fellow fire fighter. invite her to give her opinions and get some feedback on what to do.
Lets all back eachother and be safe on the fire ground.....

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on May 8, 2008 at 9:49pm

I suppose I should post this in the other forum also, but... after re-reading the original post here and seeing the back-and-forth, I have a couple of comments for Tim.

First, I think the best piece of advice I have seen posted was to keep your nose clean. Don't worry about other members of other departments who are more interested in bitching than trying to learn and get things right. That's another department's worry and be happy for it.

If you stick with this business long enough you will see many more of this type of person, male and female. They join for various reasons, mostly self-serving. You'll find that these types of people will slip away and find some other hobby where they can be the Drama Queen (or King) and be surrounded by people who will support them. This kind of crap does not last long in the fire service.

Second, welcome to the "tough love" of the brotherhood. There are some very remarkable people on this forum, who are trying to share their wisdom, knowledge and experience to help the new guys and gals who are trying to make firefighting a career or an avocation. It is often said that we are one big family, and I think it's true. How many families are there that do not have members fighting and arguing back and forth on occasion?

And finally, I will reiterate No. 1: Focus on becoming the best you can be. Learn all you can about the business; train; ask questions; take notes; do whatever it takes to excel. Don't worry about being partnered with the drama queens; they won't be there at 3 AM when fire is blowing out the second floor windows or the car is wrapped around the tree. They will be somewhere making excuses and earning the disrespect of their department members. You will be surrounded by people who want to get 'er done.

Will you be among them?