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Younger chiefs/officers
Had something happen in our county that raised a few eyebrows and figured I would throw it out and see what the emotions are. Recently, a company in the area elected a 21-year-old chief. I had heard (nothing factual, just strictly hear-say) that some of the members had issues with this. Many of them, of course, being the older and more experienced members. I am not sure if they are upset about being outranked by a younger, less experienced individual or reasonably feel that he is incapable. Just curious to see what everyones opinion is on the situation.
I am a young officer myself. I was 21 when I was appointed to the fire sergeant position. I am confident in my abilities, both on scene and in station, as are the members under me. Our system is designed so the fire chief is elected in December and takes office in January (one year term). The chief then chooses his officers and presents them for approval of the company at the January meeting. The chief of course has his own opinions and courses that he feels an individual should have before being placed in the position. Of course, no chief would place anyone in an officer position if he/she were not comfortable being represented by this individual or having this individual making decisions be it on the fireground or in the station. I would hope that the general membership electing a chief, no matter how that particular stations system is designed, would abide by the same guidelines. I feel that as long as the individual has the knowledge (station workings, incident stabilization, personnel issues, etc.)and maturity and has demonstrated such, then age should not be an issue.
I am a young officer myself. I was 21 when I was appointed to the fire sergeant position. I am confident in my abilities, both on scene and in station, as are the members under me. Our system is designed so the fire chief is elected in December and takes office in January (one year term). The chief then chooses his officers and presents them for approval of the company at the January meeting. The chief of course has his own opinions and courses that he feels an individual should have before being placed in the position. Of course, no chief would place anyone in an officer position if he/she were not comfortable being represented by this individual or having this individual making decisions be it on the fireground or in the station. I would hope that the general membership electing a chief, no matter how that particular stations system is designed, would abide by the same guidelines. I feel that as long as the individual has the knowledge (station workings, incident stabilization, personnel issues, etc.)and maturity and has demonstrated such, then age should not be an issue.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Trey,
Good points about the Army...BUT, you need to realize that the training you receive in the military is WAY more involved and detailed and a lot more STRICT to. Being an officer in the military at a young age is accepted because of the additional training you receive other than boot camp. In the fire service, as a volunteer firefighter in New York State you are only required to have Firefighter I in order to be interior. Firefighter I is not even equivalent to the basic training in the military, there is still so much more a firefighter should learn about fires and their extinguishment before fighting a fire let alone leading other firefighters into a fire. These are two totally different things and you should be careful when using it as an example.
As far as you getting the promotion to Lieutenant in your fire house...How many calls do you guys do a year? How many members do you have, and how many of those members are interior firefighters? Whats the population of your area you cover? I need more info from you before I comment on your situation brother, especially the amount of training you have yourself, what level are you and what additional training do you have?
Stay Safe brother.
Moose
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Permalink Reply by Trey Taylor on
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I understand what you are saying about the Army thing. And yes the Fire Dept training is way less strict than the Army. To be honest I dont know why I am a Lt now. My dept is a small dept, small county. We have a lot of the older guys in the county & they dont respond. Other than the chief and a couple others I have the most training. I have FF1, wildland, hazmat awareness, and first responder. I know that I need more training, Hopefully Ill get into the schools I need. Im not sure how many calls we get a year. The rate is going up, like most of the country. Our coverage area is mostly highway and woodlands. The out of the 20 or so members of the dept, 3-7 respond on a regular basis. Three of us have the current interior qualifications. Most of my extra training I have is from the army. I realize that i am still tryin to learn the job, & I try not to be that guy who thinks he knows everything. Hopefully I gave you enough information. Yall be safe.
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Thats exactly what I was looking for, and no, you definitely are NOT that guy brother!lol
You are very respectable and honest, and understand that you still need more experience which is the best attitude anyone can have in the fire service. I treat every day like another day I can learn something new about firefighting and EMS.
You are much better than most because you didnt let the promotion go to your head, and you still realize that you need more training and experience, so all in all I think you will make out just fine with your situation. You are a small dept that has a small roster, so yours is a case of "Baptism by fire" excuse the pun!! Unfortunately there are small departments out there that dont have the membership to elect the officers with 20 years experience, and they have to groom their officers with real life experience as they go. Keep your mind open, always try and learn, Always accept your responsibilities and admit when your wrong and listen to your firefighters, take as much training as you can, especially officers training, and you will evolve into a great officer.
Stay Safe out there brother and good luck.
Brian "Moose" Jones
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Thanks man. I appreaciate your thoughts. Im gonna do my best & I hope that I dont disappoint everyone. Yeah you are right, this is a baptism by fire, literally. Well thanks again and be safe.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Meredith on
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I personally know a small vol fire dept that voted in a chief at 19 years old. They don't have sog's or bylaws so the members just do what they want. They only make 100 calls a year most are ems calls. They have 13 firefighters and 5 trucks. He still is the chief and is now 21. No one at the age of 19 is ready for chief. Period.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Yeah; but that makes him 147 in dog years!
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I'm not familiar with the yank system and rank structure- is the Chief an administration role or an operational leader out in the field (Or a combination)?
If it's operational, does the Chief automatically assume control of an incident when on scene?
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Lutan, there is more than one "Yank" system, but in general the Chief is in control of an incident when on scene. In his/her absence the next highest ranking officer assumes command. The role is administrative between calls, then operational when the bells go off.
To further illustrate the "Yank" system - on the career side most (but not all) deputy and assistant chiefs are promoted based on competitive exams. Chiefs are either chosen from the ranks of the most senior deputies, or sought through a nationwide search by the municipality.
In contrast, the volunteer companies often choose a chief at an annual election. Here is where the most popular good ol' boys can get into the top office. Other companies have a continual move-up system of succession. Sometimes the most qualified members refuse to run because of all the BS associated with the job, and a less experienced member can move up this way. Some companies have hired paid chiefs.
Each company has its own qualifications for chief officers, ranging from none to very stringent.
There is absolutely NO uniform way in which officer elections are held across the volunteer service.
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cool. What I was going to say, is if it is just an admin role, then not such a big issue in terms of age and experience- not ideal, but can be worked around.
Given that it's operational, then for sure, there's some issues.
With the service I came from, the rank did not determine who was in control of the scene. ie: I was an officer and it was my scene. If a higher ranking perosn arrived, they did not automatically take over, unless there was a formal handover....
In contrast, the volunteer companies often choose a chief at an annual election. Here is where the most popular good ol' boys can get into the top office.
Good to see the best BBQ in town is a universal election tool!!! :)
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Joe, why oh why is there more than one system?
It seems so disjointed and sounds like it will cause problems in terms of interoperability, mutual aid, etc
Our systems are nationally based. Our training is nationally based. Sure, there's some minor differences amongst services when you get into the nitty gritty, but overall, you can pretty much go anywhere in the whole country and use the same systems, etc...
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I should also add that a non ranking person could lead the scene- it came down to a combinaiton of training, qualifications and experience. Not black and white, but worked alright overall.
This pretty much eliminated the problems being discussed here on this thread.
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"Joe, why oh why is there more than one system?"
There are a host of reasons, starting with fire companies being competitive. Add in tradition, complacency, fierce independence, and other human traits and that begins to explain it.
"It seems so disjointed and sounds like it will cause problems in terms of interoperability, mutual aid, etc"
Oh, yeah. It has, it does, and it will.
NIMS is an attempt to standardize the general approach to incidents, but it doesn't address anything like standards for officer selection, etc. Perhaps someday there will be uniformity but it's going to take a long time.
Can you post a link or links that describes how your fire service is set up? Sounds like we can learn something from it.
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