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How to handle this situation..
We have a junior on our department, who I believe gets an unfair advantage. He has family who are very high ranking in the department, and basically gets to do whatever he please. Here at my department our rules on juniors are pretty normal. Juniors cannot do anything that will put them in harms way in anyway, shape or form, do not ride to structure fires on first out, and do not response to ANY medical calls. This particular junior received close to brand new turn out gear (while others get old spare gear), rides first due to structure fires, and responds to almost ALL medical calls. I understand that this stuff is none of my business, and it really should effect me, however when other juniors see this one getting away with all this crap, they think they can do it, and now all of our juniors seem to think they have 20 years in the fire service. What can be done to stop this? The chief, the EMS captain and a fire captain are all family to him..
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sparky3317 on
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Tom, Sorry to say you answered you own question. The hire ups are family to the junior. Unless they put a stop to it or if your union, make a complaint if its in your contract what they are allowed to do and not do, then nothing will change.
It sucks especially for the other juniors who are getting held to a certain standard but it does happen, just like in any job where family is involved.
Hope it works out, take care and stay safe
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Permalink Reply by Don Catenacci on
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If the Chief is choosing not to address this issue perhaps you need to go over his head.
The issue is LIABILITY, plain and simple. Eventually some FD is going to seriously injure or kill one of those "20 year veteran" juniors and then the shit will hit the fan so hard it will vaporize.
Too many fire departments with junior programs are utilizing them to make up for staffing shortages and THAT is the major problem. Juniors are NOT firefighters, they are young people interested in the fire department who are there to train and get a look at exploring becoming firefighters when they become of age. I am adamantly opposed to juniors responding on any apparatus running red lights and siren. I am adamantly opposed to juniors being in the hot zone and working in any area that requires SCBA.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Unless they put a stop to it or if your union, make a complaint if its in your contract what they are allowed to do and not do, then nothing will change
Most likely we are talking about a volunteer dept, so most likely no union, nor contract. Most career depts that may have such a program in place are either cadet or explorer programs, which tend to have a more structured program guideline. Whereas a junior program is basically established by an individual dept.....and hence we see many issues with juniors we do see.
However, you may be right if there are guidelines in place and protocols establish rules for juniors to follow. If such documentation exists, it is easy to use the documentation to show that the chief and family are abusing their authority.
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I would agree with Don and that this may be a case where one must go over the chief's head. Before going to such lengths, I would first ensure there is documentation regarding rules for juniors....if none exist, establish them. Secondly, I would be discussing the measures with the chief first. I would then be bringing the issue up during a regular dept business meeting, so that there is discussion among all members.
Going to the chief first gives him a chance to expect the discussion so it is not sprung on him. If no resolution is reached and the issues are not addressed, I would then be going above the chief and right up to the city/village/town council or police and fire commission (whatever the chain is established as). I would state such intentions to go above the chief's head at such a business meeting, because this IS a serious issue and a LIABILITY as already stated.
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Permalink Reply by Tom on
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I like what you guys were saying. And if it weren't for the liability issue I would have no problem with it. I would just ignore it. However, when something happens and this kid get hurt or god forbid killed its going to come down on the whole department, and come down HARD.
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NO Jason, they are NOT stuck. If there are no rules and regs spelled out for juniors it is an accident, injury or death just waiting to happen. They clearly need to rein in this junior program, get it back on track for what it should be, a training and ondoctrination into the fire service, or shut it down before disaster strikes.
Frankly, I am not sure you are one to try to help Tom out here since you admit YOU broke the rules "when we were short handed." Dude, a rule is a rule is a rule. Either you followed them or you didn't. And CLEARLY you didn't, you did exactly what Tom is talking about, took advantage of family having rank on the FD to avoid having to follow the rules everyone else did.
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Ok, where to start...
I was a junior firefighter on Long Island NY for four years, and my dad was Lieutenant and then Captain of the Engine company, but I received no special treatment other than an extra "hello" in the day room at the firehouse. I still had to act as a junior should act and follow all the rules.
Explorers have different rules established by the Boy Scouts of America. They are covered under their insurance plans and therefore have to follow strict rules, and the Advisors of the expolorer program have to work close with BSA personnel and have regular meetings with them. Maybe you guys should approach them and ask to upgrade your junior program to an Explorer Program?
How does your insurance work? Does the department insurance cover the juniors? Do the juniors have their own set of by-laws and SOG's and do they have firefighter advisors?
These are serious issues you bring up and should not be ashamed that you are worried, BE worried!! Like mentioned in other replies, if these kids get hurt or killed, the department could get shut down and sued heavily by parents and the town/village for not having proper rules in place.
As far as your Chief, Captain and EMS Captain...they need to lead by example and follow the rules. Personally, I wouldnt follow an officer who makes special allowances for family members in the department, they should be treated the same as everyone else. By babying this junior the way they are, they are not properly training him for the real thing and that is dangerous.
Get the juniors together and explain the truth to them; lay it all out as politely and professionally as you can, I know that as a junior I was always eager to hear from firefighters and learn from them. One of my advisors set a junior member straight once and I will never forget it; We were doing a hose drill one night, stretching and using hose lines properly, and this one guy whos dad was a firefighter said out loud in front of the advisor "Why are we doing this? I already know all about hose lines, lets do a rescue drill or something more interesting!!"
The advisor calmly asked if he had a turn on the hose yet, which he didnt, and he told him to take the nozzle. When he had the nozzle the advisor asked him "So you know everything about using that nozzle? You know how to handle it and what to do without any help??" The kid just smiled and said "Ofcourse!" Well....2 minutes later the pump was putting out 120 PSI and the kid was almost off the ground (there were 2 firefighters behind him who grabbed him and took the line)
The kid walked slowly over to the group just as the advisor was saying my favorite quote ever "Guys its simple...I would rather go into a burning building with someone who is constantly trying to learn rather than someone who thinks they know it all"
They are young, impressionable minds waiting to be properly educated about the fire service, if you allow this to continue than it will be disastrous. If you want to talk more about the difference between Juniors and Explorers feel free to contact me through my page, I was a junior myself, and was one of the 2 firefighters that started the Explorer Program in my past department and was an advisor for 7 years there, and 2 years in another department. I know a little about them so feel free to ask.
Good luck to you brother, you will need it!!
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