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Why don't we copy the French Fire Helmet Designs?
One of the coolest things I have ever received in the mail, ever... arrived at my house a couple of days ago. It was from one of the friends I made here on the FFN, and he is from France, where he works as a professional firefighter. Like many firefighters, we both like fire service related things and are involved with trading things back and forth. What amazed me however, was the functional design that I saw first hand.
Up to this point, I have only seen photographs of french firefighters wearing a very unfamiliar fire helmet style. To be honest, I blew off the design because they just did not look like fire helmets. After having the chance to actually wear one, I offer the following insight for those, like myself, who never have had the chance to see what our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic wear for head and face protection.
The world just keeps getting smaller... I invite everyone to take the time to get to know others around the world with the spirit of sharing and providing the most up to date training and response information available. We are not alone, we have each other.
Prenez garde à rester en sécurité, (TCSS)
CBz
The Casque Pompier (Fire Helmet):
Built in Safety Goggles:
Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
View Through Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
Fire Helmet Heat Shield:
05-25-2010 Update: I made direct contact today with MSA and spoke with one of two sales reps that have knowledge of the French Gallet F1-SF Firefighter Helmet. Here's what I learned:
• These "French" fire helmets are manufactured by MSA, which is 100% USA owned and is based internationally out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• MSA bought out the french company Gallet 7-8 years ago, which included this helmet design and manufacturing rights.
• Existing USA style fire helmets are rated to no more than 1500˚F, while this particular style is rated to 1800˚F. Why more? The same technology used by NASA for astronaut helmets visors are incorporated into this design. Both the helmet and face shield reflect the heat, keeping the interior of the helmet cool, with maximum interior helmet temperatures reaching around 95˚F.
• The existing F1-SF helmet does not meet NA standards as mentioned in one of the posts. However, there is such a demand now for this style that MSA is working on providing a NA approved helmet that has the same features but also possesses the necessary impact standards.
• What we are looking at is a glimpse of what the 21st century firefighters are going to be wearing, internationally...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I understand completely about the original leather helmet ridges being the leather joins, but those ridges are included in several styles of non-leather helmet precisely because they deflect impacts from multiple directions.
The fact that the ridges are helmet joins has nothing to do with the fact that they also deflect impacts.
Please re-read my post. Nowhere did I say that the U.S. helmets are superior in deflecting downforce. In fact, I specifically said that the Euro helmets do not do a better job of deflecting downforce. You are arguing against a point I did not make.
Nowhere did I claim that the U.S. traditional style helmet is superior. I question your use of the word "dominent" since a helmet choice is just that - a choice, not a war or a boxing match.
I firmly believe that you are confusing the performance of a helmet during a test with the performance of how it protects firefighters in the real world.
I also know the testing results that show that no matter how much force is transmitted through the helmet shell to the wearer's head, that force is reduced if there is a crushable impact cap to help absorb some of that force. Many automobiles now have a similar crushable cell in the front and rear bumpers for exactly the same reason - crushable impact cells reduce force transmission.
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Permalink Reply by Nenad on
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I found some information about EN 433:2008 standard for firefighter helmets.
http://www.satrappeguide.com/EN443.php
www.draeger.com/media/10/01/09/.../helmet_norm_br_9046406_en.pdf
http://www.north-fire.com/pdf/herosxtreme.pdf
As far as I know, firefighters all over the world are not open minded to new and different things. Many FF in other discussions wrote: ''If it is not broken why to change it !'' Partially, it's true. But without testing on real interventions we can't say that PPE is good enough or not. I can't say that american style helmets are bad or good, because I haven't worn them.
Few days ago I had the opportunity to try Italian SICOR helmet,one of the lightest on the market, produced from kevlar.
http://www.sicor-sureco.com/it/caschi/vigili-del-fuoco/vfr-2009.html
Almost all EU fire helmets are pretty much the same design, because of the EN 443 standard safety requirements.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YafS6LarTzY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc1T_ZmvfoQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCoka38MPc&feature=related
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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My point of authoring this post was to draw attention to exactly what you pointed out... If it ain't broken, don't fix it is the one single mindset that keeps many fire departments from adapting to our ever changing world of things that burn or go wrong.
Just look at the number of posts on this thread. People really want change. They will unfortunately have to wait for certain people to either retire or die before anything such as changing helmet design can or will occur.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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Mike, I noticed this morning that our MFB (www.mfb.vic.gov.au) have gone to a new style helmet- additional info below in the link....
http://www.mfb.vic.gov.au/News/MFB-Firefighters-Hi-Tech-Uniform.html
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Permalink Reply by Sandro Kwestro on
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That's a pretty good one as well.
In the Netherlands (by estimation) half of the departments is using Gallet, the other half is using Rosenbauer.
My department switched from Rosenbauer to Gallet, about 5 years ago. I don't know the exact reason for the switch.
Personally I think you have to choose for the one that has the highest safety requirements/standards. It doesn't matter what it looks like (well maybe a little bit), or how emotionally attached you are to it.
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That's a BIG helmet Lutan. Does it have cool face protectors that flip down? You can see a rear shroud of some sort. Looks like someone retired or died in Australia if you are going to a new helmet design. That unless you are just more proactive and willing to adopt new technology, more so that the states.
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I don't know the background to the change. There's certianly been no reported LODD or injuries that spring to mind. I first saw these yesterday when two appliances pulled up next door for an alarm and the crew got out.
I'm not sure that it's actually that big- picture might be deceiving though.
Knowing how militant the Union is, there's no doubt the new PPE would have had to undergo some very rigorous testing, etc...
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looking forward to seeing and hearing how the new helmet design works out for you
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Permalink Reply by richard sees on
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OK, I have to say something. If we need to withstand up to 1800 degrees what are we doing there? If we need to have all this high tech gear to protect us to get into a building who are we or what are we saving? I know. Its to protect us in case of a flash over which brings me back to my first question. I'll be in the job 43 years next month. Fires HAVE changed. I've seen it. Thats why we are still getting people killed. They are getting killed because they shouldn't or don't need to be there.
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They are getting killed because they shouldn't or don't need to be there.
But they are going in there, regardless of whether they should or shouldn't be, so shouldn't we do everything we can to protect them?
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Good point - there is a lot more lightweight construction in the U.S. than in Europe, it comes apart more easily when on fire, and falling objects are a constant problem here.
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Injuries reported from side impacts are extremely rare.
"Felt a lot safer" might be translated to "Felt a false sense of security" or "Subjectively, I like it".
No one has really been able to define "Safer" in the entire context of this discussion.
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