The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
And there it was.....GONE
Seems another person wants to pull a post right after making comments. While this has occurred in the past, it really is frustrating to make a reply and time to post a reply just to have the thread disappear.
I am referring to a thread posted by T.O.Tyson in regards to a suicidal man who drowned himself in the San Francisco bay while crews watched. The article refers to budget cuts and policy as the reasoning first responders stood by to watch the man die.
The intial title was that San Francisco Firefighters just stood by, but the incident occurred in Alameda, which is across the bay from San Francisco. I pointed this aspect out to the OP to show that the dept he is referring to had nothing to do with the incident.
I'm guessing that what made the thread disappear was the question of "what would you do", with the OP's response as "policy be damned". For that I inquired as to if freelancing is thus acceptable and so on. I mentioned that an incident, such as this, is easy to Monday morning QB because hindsight is 20/20, we also have the luxury of knowing the outcome etc, but were NOT in the same place.
Another poster did get a post in before said thread disappeared with the gist that "something could of been done, or at least talked to the person" etc and even going into a "policy be damned" approach. It was during my response to this, I noticed the thread was thus pulled. So this was my reply to him.
<b>Any one of the rescuers could have tried, throw a rope, talk him back in to the shore, anything...........I would have atleast tried toalking to him and get him to see that there are people that care about his problems and want to help, maybe that is why he kept looking back, hoping someone would try and talk him out of it.
</b>
How do you know this wasn't done? The article bears no mention of it, the video clip states the guy was 100 yards from shore.....300ft.....don't know about you, but that is beyond the distance for an adequate rope throw and beyond the reach of a ladder. The fire boat was on the ground and there is no rescue swimmers or water rescue program, so in the end there really isn't much more that can be done. Besides 300 ft is a good distance to hinder effective communications, sure a amplifier etc could work, but people on shore can't hear the responses.
Since the clip does state 100 yards, this goes back to my reply to the OP especially with the "policy be damned" approach, 300ft is a significant distance to be risking personnel on a person intent on taking their own life. As I mentioned before hindsight is 20/20 here and we were not in the same predicament to be making such statements like "policy be damned" or "Too many firefighters and first responders (EMS, Cops, Etc) are scared to be sue'd and are scared that their actions, although caring and heroic, will be viewed by the public as wrong and will be taken to court...DISGUSTS ME TO NO END!!!!" The clip mentions how frustated the responders were, but in the end there just isn't the needed resources to mitigate here. The big picture needs to be looked at and such replies doesn't account for that.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by FFN WebTeam on
-
The original post was pulled because it violated copyright law. He was told that he could summarize the story in his own words and include a link to the article if he wished for the discussion to begin again. For the legal protection of FFN members and ourselves, posts should not be cut and paste of copyright protected works. In this age of blogs and other forms of media, many news sources are investigating where there material is shared as well enforcing its protection.
FFN
-
Permalink Reply by Moose on
-
Hey John, those were mostly my replies you made reference to, and I was refering to being pissed off at the people that hound us as firefighters and follow our every move that disgust me and in no way was making any negative comment about the firefighters. I was merely pissed that the way the economy keeps making the fire service have to make changes and cut things makes it difficult to do what we are supposed to do, and it angers me. So again, I was pissed off at the people who constantly sue us for what they saw us do or not do, and NOT the firefighters. Sorry for the confusion.
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
Brian,
I do realize those are your words. It was when I hit reply and the response was taking forever that I figured I would check the forums again. So I copied my words in case and then found the thread was gone, so I reposted here.
My issue from the OP was the "damn the policies" retort and you also made similar reference. It was that that I wanted to touch on and the fact that things in an article etc, really don't always depict the circumstances involved. I know you referred about communications or even trying to throw a rope etc, yet the video clip attached states the guy was out 300 feet, which does limit what any first responder can do, especially without water rescue resources that were thus cut. In the end, I don't agree with a "damn the policies" approach because it doesn't always account for the big picture.
-
-
Knowing now that the guy was over 300 feet out I agree. I didnt get to see the video, I am at work and cant see certain things on my Laptop so I shot from the hip with my reply. I assumed that since they said they saw the man looking back at them and that he was still in just neck deep that he was relatively close to the shore still. Its a shame that these brothers had to just sit and watch, must have been a terrible feeling.
I was angry at the bystanders-and not just the ones at this incident-but the citizens in general, and how quick they are to complain about the jobs we do, and how totaly clueless they are yet they think they know it all. It burns me to no end that someone would file a lawsuit on us, especially with the way our hands are tied behind our backs. I let me emotions get the best of me when I typed my reply and should have thought it out more so it sounded like I was "Monday morning Quarterbacking" their incident, and I was by all means not doing so. I would have been devastated to have been one of them, having to watch someone die, regardless of whether or not he did it on purpose, and could do nothing about it because some "A" hole in a suit sitting in city hall decided that cutting the fire department training was the better way to save money instead of cutting his own salary first, or cutting spending in other areas of the city first...
All my best to the firefighters involved in this horrible tragedy, as well as the police. EMS and coast gaurd.
STay Safe.
-
Permalink Reply by FETC on
-
Let's step aside from the emotional side of the incident. This guy was attempting to commit suicide. So his mindset was "unstable" My first thought as an officer is how is this incident any different than a suicidal guy standing in the street with a handgun?
It's not, it is simply a police matter.
If the FD or EMS decided to enter the water to pull him to shore, how could they assure the suicidal man doesn't have a weapon on him (out of sight) or if he didn't how can you assure a struggle won't ensue that affords a rescuer being injured or possibly drowned in the process?
You can't. Even if you could throw this guy a rope, he is not going to grab hold of it. Otherwise he would have walked back to shore willingly.
The FD did a very poor job handling the PR side of the media. They came out looking like the bad guys (public trust-loyalty-credibility was definately reduced) and they should have explained the reasons why, even if they had a water rescue team in place, that this was not a willing victim in a water rescue incident.
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
Don't feel too bad. On the Fire Law blog and the San Fran Channel 7 News sites, people are blasting the firefighters for not throwing the vic a rope - like a 75 foot rope is somehow going to reach 300 feet and be caught by a person who doesn't want to be rescued.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
