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17 years in the service & 14 with one department (Gone)
I jumped into the fire service 17 years ago during a flood. I've been on my department for 14 years and they threw me off. What can I do? Here's the facts: We were on a 10-50 with a fatality, there was two departments arrived on scene. Two vehicles with two victoms each. I was a Captain/EMT and have no extrication training. When I arrived one of the firefighters from my department that was already on scene told me there was already several responders assisting patients and he needed my help starting the extrication. I let him know I had no training but to tell me what he needed, so I laid out the tarp and he left the area. At that point one of the Responders who was first on scene hollered for me to relieve him as he had no turnout gear on and they were ready to cut the door to get his patient out, so I took over C-spine and as soon as the door was off I directed the crew who was with me to backboard and we loaded the board straight to the waiting chopper as this was the most seriously injured on scene. I then assisted with another patient applying a traction splint. When we loaded that victom I walked around the side of the ambulance and my Chief was standing there and told me to get off the scene and drop my gear at the station. He said I was off the department for refusing to follow a direct order and saying I wasn't trained in extrication. I was never allowed to defend myself or told exactly why I was being booted. Since then I have been threatened to be taken to court to hand over records that don't exist and even have threats of physical violence. What can I do I don't want out but my best ex-best friend of 20 years and the person who got me in the service is the one who betrayed me. I can't go back to that department as all possible trust is gone. So what are my options??
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by turk182 on
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I do not know what having vehicle extracation has to do with being and officer?
My department does not have any rescue tools our any vehicle rescue classes we have three rescues in neighboring departments that handle extracation in our area. And the classes in our area for it are hard to come across and if there is one by the time you find out about it, it's over.
And from what I read he only worked on the patients he did not do any actual cutting on the vehicles. there has to be another reason they did this to him.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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The reason that I asked was because, apparently, his department DID perform extrications at MVAs. And EMTs and I was one, get at least an awareness level for the tools that they will be working around at the scene of vehicle accidents.
Which is why I wondered if there wasn't another reason for his predicament.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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I wondered the same thing too, that's why I asked those questions. If his department doesn't have a tool then I could see the lack of training. If they do, then... seems like a basic ingredient for a leadership position.
Another thing I wondered at, was that a firefighter "ordered" him - a Captain - to help with extrication.
Ray, we're trying to help ya, man! Where are you?
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Permalink Reply by Brent E Webster on
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This does not make a lot of sense to me. You need to look into your departments SOP's or state law concerning any removal or dismissal of a firefighter. But be aware that any previous incidents with the refusal to take or complete specific orders could be used against you. There seems to be another conflict that may have caused this not just the incident as you described it. In 17 years and being promoted to the rank of Captain without any extrication training makes me question the training program or the promotional process of the department that you have been with for so long. I would also if I knew I was in the right and wanting to return to the department seek legal advise from an attorney that is familiar with your specific state statues conserning this issue.
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Permalink Reply by Engine 32 Capt. on
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A lot of us have asked questions with no answers. I get the feeling (my opinion) that the writer is venting over something we don't have all the answers to.
As one member stated...even basic EMTs get vehicle extrication instruction, even if it means prying the car open with your finger nails.
So one begs the question...what's the real story here?
Another member (turk182) posted that they don't do extrication, so why should that hinder promotion?
I know of departments around here that have members who were fire fighters one week, and Captains the next. It goes to the "Good Ol' Boy" system of who kisses the most ass gets promoted the fastest. I don't necessarily agree with that phylosophy.
If you're a Captain in the fire service, you should be able to perform basic tasks, regardless of your call nature. In other words; If you have a street in your district...if people drive cars in your district...you should be trained and able to get them out of those cars should the need arise. Relying on mutual aid to do your job is shameful. People pay you to do your job, whether it be through taxes or subscription or whatever. If you're First Due, you should be ready, trained and able to provide whatever service they need.
Just my two cents.
Stay safe and train like your life depends on it...someone else's might.
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Amen Brother.
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Permalink Reply by Wes Anders on
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Amen!! I agree there has to be alot more to this then will ever be seen on here.
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Permalink Reply by anna m. mills on
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man i know just what you are going through! i've got 23 yrs of service in the same company and never seen it coming. my best (ex-best friend) was the one whom set me up also. i was the capt. of the ems as our fire dept and ems and rescue are all together. except somehow i went from being capt to being medically unacceptable in 4 months. my newly appointed by the my chief my best friend my lt. was only taking the spot to help me she didn't want anything to do with being capt or anything else. but every meeting after that somewhow i couldn't do anything right and she who's only been around for 4 months knew everything . i've been capt for 7yrs. how could i not see my best friend doing this? volunteer companies. man we are screwed like the other guy said. i don't want to be after 23yrs but what am i gona do to. man i wish i could help you you were most defintly right. and i would go to bat for ya but no one fight for anyone anymore. hang in or find another comany close to ya that you can do the same with. good luck
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im sorry but i have to reply to all you that think that ass kissing gets you no where in the fire service then you all must be officers. because i know for a fact being in the fire service my self for 23yrs and an officer (non-ass kissing one) that that is the only way that 75% of my officers get to be officers. and the others that don't ass kiss if you even think of questioning the chief you will find yourself outside looking in pretty damn quick!!! so try and snow ball everyone and tell us when i watch officers whom haven't finished fire 1 yet become an officer and he's going to lead people i care about or people that been around or just the point he's going to do it when he hasn't a clue yet himself.
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Permalink Reply by Ken Ramsey on
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Well being in one of the largest volunteer services in the US and being an officer for the last 7 years it seems to me and by no direspect that there is a little info missing. 1. rank of person asking you to help with extrication (incident commander or joe fireman). 2. 17 years in fire service and an EMT but no extrication training what gives?
3. Is the department station controlled or part of a county or municipal commission? 4. How many problems have there been between the chief and you or you and any other?
1. If the person was the IC and asked you to do something then you should have stayed on the present task,not saying operate with out training but getting all the tools ready. As far as his rank, if he was just a joe blow then I cant see why you would have started to do what he said with out consulting the IC especially with you being a captain. In my department the first officer or lead engineer if no officer present is in charge. This goes back to having a structured system of Incident Command. No operations goes on with out the say so of the IC, period!! Now having two stations on scene does throw a loop in it but the same principals apply. As far as the person calling out, he should have never been there with out PPE on to begin with. But again if the one who "ordered" you to do something was IC then it should have been cleared by him.
2. I have been an emt, and currently a captain. Being in such a ranking spot should push you to recieve the proper training for that field. Extrication is a must for any EMT/Paramedic especially if you ride a rig. Being in for 17 years just seems weird that you would have never been trained as such.
3. If the department is individually controlled meaning all your monies come straight to you guys, such as taxes and so forth. Then a meeting with the heads of that department is your first goal. If they deny you that respect then the local papers is where you should go. If commission controlled than a greviance with the county or municipal unit is your first act followed by the papers. (now this is if what you tell us is 100% true no disrespect intended)
4. If you have been a problem child and have not l;istened well in the past or went of on your own deal then this could have been the last straw.
Going back to the department might not be a bad thing but mending relationships could take even longer.
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