What color fire engines should go first? Or will you be the one leaving...

Original Post Title: Are firefighters considered sacrosanct anymore? Which garnered 3 replies...



"We now only respond for true medical emergencies, and that’s cut our run count back by 1,000 a year, and has kept apparatus and manpower in place for real emergencies.”


An old friend and fellow hazmat guy who is now a local Fire Chief shared a really good article entitled, "Firefighters Feel the Squeeze of Shrinking Budgets, In small and large cities alike, firefighters have gone from heroes to budget bait", where problems are identified and discussed including the scenario of having to cut back on general services to keep fire station doors open. Something has to change with the types of services we provide as well as compromise being necessary on the parts of both unions and municipalities is the authors opinion, do you agree? 

Does cutting back on the types of responses seem like something that would work for your jurisdiction to save money and keep apparatus in place for "real" emergencies?

What is not mentioned in the article are the cost savings for driving your apparatus less. This savings that include less fuel and maintenance needs could translate into significant savings. 

Up until now, the fire service has been free to do pretty much anything they felt was necessary toward providing increased public safety and emergency response. It appears that firefighters are no longer sacrosanct anymore... If there was ever a time for fire departments to focus on public relations and image, now is the time. Other departments (non-fire) will be competing for money and funding, and we better be on our toes. 

As the Santa Barbara City Fire Chief, Andy DiMizio says,  "We need to really look hard at what we do, and do it better."  
 
CBz

mschlags@gmail.com

"Failure to prepare is preparing for failure, be prepared... your life may depend on it."

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Permalink Reply by David Earl Gregory on January 7, 2011 at 5:25pm
Stickler of situation I know. What do the FD's do to maintain? Maybe I'm way off base here but I think this may have started out a long time ago and in quite a different area. Back in '88, right before I quit American LaFrance for a "real" job with a paycheck, I told them they were pricing themselves out of business. I got laughed at. Where's ALF now? It's sort of along the same lines with the FD and EMS and PD as well.

The equipment we/you all use and are required to have, is not something Joe 6pack has a use or need for. The companies that produce this stuff for us realize this and have inflated prices WAYTHEHELLANDGONE beyond rhyme or reason. Overhead costs in any business, be it public or private, is a killer. Government intervention with all the regulations and crapola has further increased the overhead cost. I work in private industry now and in order to dispose of 1 burned out fluorescent light bulb we have to pay a hazmat disposal co. to come in and haul it away. You blow one at home, throw the damn thing in the garbage and be done with it. Same with flashlight batteries, etc. We once had to pay in excess of $350.00 to get 6 half-dollar sized nicad batteries "disposed" of......because of govt. regulations. Now before all the enviro folks crawl all over me, I'm not advocating canning the EPA regs, just apply some damn common sense. Okay, nuff said there.

Fire Dept. budgets seem to always be at the top of the list for cutting, along with Police and then EMS. Why? The likelihood that one of the "budget cutters" is gonna need the FD or PD is relatively slim. At the same time, the odds for needing the EMS folks rises exponentially with age and lifestyle. "I'm havin' a heart attack, not a house fire" has been heard more than once.

No, I really don't have any quick and easy answers here because the problem is so multi-faceted. You've got to attack the rising overhead/equipment costs, as well as a shrinking tax base because folks are out of a job and therefore ain't spending as much and that translates into less tax income. Same with home foreclosures and business closings; less tax revenue. The "sheeple" don't have the ability to think independently anymore and rely on the local media to tell them what to think and do. "WE", read that "YOU" current FD, PD, and EMS folks need to make yourselves seen and heard. Attend local and state political meetings where budgets are being discussed. Have factual and pertinent data available to back up your causes. Contact the media and tell YOUR side of the story. Remind them of why you need X number of warm bodies on the engines, and cite examples of what did NOT happen because you were adequately staffed. Invite the media for ride-alongs and let them see and share what goes on with the public. As it is, Joe Public sees you sitting on your ass waiting for the bell to ring. Education, information, and eyewitness are ways to get more positive attention focused on where it matters. NOT on another rapid transit rail to nowhere or bus route to the boonies for 3 riders because of global warming.

If the cutting continues, more jobs are going to be lost, more lives lost, and guess who gets the blame???
Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on January 8, 2011 at 1:10am
bottom line is following the money, which there is, regardless of the amount, there is at least something coming back in to the coffers if FD's get on board with providing EMS services... and yes, folks should be careful what they wish for, they just might get it, and that can be taken two ways, just sayin'...

CBz
Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on January 8, 2011 at 11:48am
Luckliy, we're a Fire Protection District, so as our own taxing body, we don't compete with the other municipal departments for a piece of the fiscal pie. So far we've been spared from any serious budget woes. That being said, there are many Fire Departments in the surrounding areas that have not been spared. The laying off of Firefighters has become a reality for these F.D's. The FD to the north of our border has had to close up one of it's stations and shift the manpower to the other 2 stations in order to operate "safe-ish". They are still understaffed, and rely more heavliy on mutual aid now.

The sad thing is that the general public doesn't seem to care, as long as someone responds when they call 911!
Permalink Reply by Greenman on January 8, 2011 at 12:01pm
In tight budgetary times, Fire Departments have to learn to operate smarter with the resources they have.

In my opinion, one of the best ways to do this is to become a really good "Fire Prevention Department" by rolling the Engines out of the bays more often to do Pre-plans, inspections and especially Fire and Life Safety Education visits to Schools, Scout Meetings, Churches, Day Care Centers, Elderly residential facilities, etc we cut the number of times we roll the equipment to a fire. By not only running medical calls, perhaps with smaller apparatus (Think Squad 51 from Emergency running medical calls while Engine 51 stayed in quarters), but also ramping up the education and outreach opportunities the Fire Department not only endears itself with the public we serve, but also cuts our number 1 expense: Fire Suppression.

A great example of this philosophy can be found on any U.S. military base. DoD Fire is a First-rate Fire Prevention Department, and fires rarely occur in residences on military bases, most of the firefighting budget goes towards aircraft-related firefighting (ARFF).

Let's face it, the public is more willing to cut the founds of the fire department it sees sitting in quarters "playing checkers" than it is the fire department it sees interfacing with the community on a daily basis. The Police have a concept called "Community Policing" where LEOs get into the neighborhoods more often and citizens get to know the Cops before they have to call 911, why not engage in "Community Firefighting" by getting out of the Firehouse and letting our communities get to know us before there's a fire?

Food for thought.

Greenman
Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on January 8, 2011 at 6:00pm
The biggest problem is that the fat cat bureacrats get "corrupt" in their ways and do things sneaky so they look good in the eyes of the public.One example I'll use is here is FD and EMS are seperate entities here and they wanted to put a first responder unit in our town because the nearest ambulance is 15 min to the east and twenty to the north so they put a pickup truck and one person on duty in town.Previous to this my FD responded to medical calls til ambulance arrived now its a single paramedic that costs the taxpayers 90000 dollars a year and they do the same as we did and paging us out without the exact # was probably in the area of 10000 a year with maybe a 3 or 4 min response time difference.But the people felt safer but they didn't really think about the cost for the same service but they heard EMS and felt that they were in better hands.Word games will play with peoples minds and politicians know this.
If the public would realize that they are being "duped" sometimes by their officials then there would not be alot of these issues in society.There is so much corruption in all levels of the governments that if even 10% of the money they waste or embezel was put back in the fire service there would never be an issue of crappy PPE laying off FF's or crappy equipment.None of this would ever exist.Now mind you that people just don't have the energy to bother find out stuff but love to bitch after the fact and then there are the ones that know things but don't have a leg to stand on fighting by themselves.The public has to unite and fight together that includes FD's and EMS and the general public that is protected by them to make a difference.
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on January 8, 2011 at 6:34pm
Richard, two questions.

1) How does putting an EMS quick-response with ALS capabilities in an area 15 minutes away from the closest ambulance equal "corrupt"? One consideration - how far away is the 2nd due ambulance if the one 15 minutes away is on another call? Did the previous FD first response have ALS capability that included things like being able to reverse anaphylactic shock, reverse insulin shock, implement advanced airway control on a patient with an airway obstruction or respiratory arrest, or to simply control pain on a patient with burns or an extremity fracture?
Did the previous FD 1st response have a provision for covering the 1st response when the FD was committed to a fire?

If any of those are different than what happens now, then it's difficult to support a claim that the EMS 1st response is "the same" as the previous FD 1st response.

2) "There is so much corruption in all levels of the governments...that if even 10% of the money the waste...put back in the fire service...never be an issue..." Evidence, please.
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on January 8, 2011 at 6:36pm
NASA doesn't provide "free" EMS, you just didn't have to pay a user fee.

All of us pay for the EMS at KSC that only a few use.

On the topic of insurance "only" paying $50 to $100, adding that user fee to tax base will help, even if it doesn't solve every problem.
Permalink Reply by Greenman on January 8, 2011 at 6:45pm
Looking at the picture at the head of this thread...is that hose team actually doing any good with that little tiny hose line in the middle of a conflagration?

They're just annoying the fire is all they are doing.

Greenman
Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on January 9, 2011 at 8:29am
Ben im sayin my FD never lost anyone that wasn't already gone and to justify spending 90,000 bucks on something we did and have a one person crew that calls us to preform CPR anyway cause one man CPR doesn't work.Yes yo have a point of an ambulance person has more qualifications than one of our guys but like i said we never responded to a medical call that we couldn't handle.And there is a two ambulance station 15 min to the east of me actually probably 10 min with lights and sirens and then there is a 8 ambulance station 20 min to the north(15 with lights and sirens).If those 10 are all busy at the same time then there is a 2 ambulance station 30 min away to the west.
Do i seriously have to prove to you that governments waste money Ben.Do you not read newspapers or watch T.V. at all.Because I do and everyday there is an article in the paper asking why millions are being spent on stupid things and it happens at all levels of the governments.But if you seriously want me to give the the proof I will send you some links to newspaper articles.
Anyway Ben if this thread was started about FF's loosing their jobs and I simply used an example I thought was a huge waste of money for the community that directly affected my FD and simply tried to state that governments waste money to the extreme and if they didn't no FF would have to worry about job lose or anything.But you jump down my throat for saying it and then you want proof that governments waste money are you F**ckin for real what fairy tale land are you living in that your government don't waste or steal money?
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on January 9, 2011 at 8:56am
Richard, I'm saying two things.

1) "Nothing we couldn't handle" doesn't necessarily equal "best possible patient outcome". The fact that your department got away with providing less than the highest level of patient care doesn't mean that's the right thing to do for future patients.

2) When you make a claim, the onus of proof is on YOU. You accuse unnamed "government" of being corrupt without providing any evidence other than an administrative choice that seems to be intended to improve EMS service in an area that didn't have good EMS response times. That does not equal "corrupt", nor even "wasteful". Your "fairy tale land" comment has nothing to do with the situation. I'm under no obligation to prove your point for you. YOU made the accusation, and I merely asked you to back it up. You haven't done that yet. Asking if I live in a "fairy tale land" is diversionary. Ditto for "watching the news". What does anything I see on the news have to do with EMS putting a 1st Responder unit in your community?

Your premise seems to indicate that fire departments should be a jobs program, first and foremost. If I'm wrong about that premise, please enlighten me. Just remember that government is responsible for a lot of things other than providing fire services, at different levels of government. There are competing priorities from the citizens that pay the taxes that support the fire department - and EMS, and law enforcement, and every other government or quasi-government service.

You admitted that your department's non-ALS 1st Responder program couldn't provide the same level of care as the new EMS 1st response unit. Should we base what we do on the least we can get by with, or should we be trying to do the most we can do for the patient?

Further, I didn't "jump down your throat". I just asked a few questions.

As for 1-person CPR supposedly not working, the American Heart Association disagrees. CPR is one of only two definitive "Proven to be helpful" (Class I) interventions for cardiac arrest patients. Early defibrillation for V-Fib is the other. No, one person can't endlessly handle a cardiac arrest without help, but there are two problems with your position on that one as well. First, the EMS 1st Responder unit will run many calls other than CPRs, so basing the accusation of "wasteful" on one call type doesn't hold up.

The second is that you haven't shown that getting a paramedic to a cardiac arrest patient 15 minutes prior to the ambulance arrival is a bad thing, or if so, how it is bad.

We need to focus on taking care of community needs to the best of our ability. If that means adding an EMS 1st responder vehicle to an area remote from the closest ambulance and working out SOGs/protocols for the FD and the EMS medic working together to help people prior to the ambulance arrival, not only is it not wasteful, it's probably exactly what your community expects. I'm just guessing, but I strongly suspect it's a good guess.
Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on January 9, 2011 at 9:36am
Permalink Reply by Richard Armstrong on January 9, 2011 at 9:40am

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