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Career FF pay and work schedules.....your input is needed.
I tried to see if someone had already posted something along those lines but when I typed in "pay" in the search field it gave me 200+ hits, so sorry if I am duplicating anything.
I am curious as to how many hours you work per your pay check. Do you work shift work? Any kelly days? Overtime pay?
Reason why I ask is that my current Department pays us for 16 hours of our 24 hour shift. They deduct 5 hours for sleep, even though we usually dont get to sleep the full 5, and 3 hours for meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I have been doing research into it, and their reasoning behind it is the Fair Labor Standard Act (FLSA). They say that we are a flexible hour flexible rate employee as per FLSA. Well I have read part of the FLSA manual, if any of you have ever read it or looked at it, its thicker than the Bible and harder to understand.
I have spoken to only one other person from my state who "was" paid like we are, and they were able to get three years back pay for it being illegal to pay us in that manor. It also gave them overtime for two years due to the 24 on 48 off schedule, until the city gave them a kelly day(day off for those who dont know) to compensate them for their work schedule.
If you have come across something similar to this or have any input please let me know.
Thanks, William
I am curious as to how many hours you work per your pay check. Do you work shift work? Any kelly days? Overtime pay?
Reason why I ask is that my current Department pays us for 16 hours of our 24 hour shift. They deduct 5 hours for sleep, even though we usually dont get to sleep the full 5, and 3 hours for meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I have been doing research into it, and their reasoning behind it is the Fair Labor Standard Act (FLSA). They say that we are a flexible hour flexible rate employee as per FLSA. Well I have read part of the FLSA manual, if any of you have ever read it or looked at it, its thicker than the Bible and harder to understand.
I have spoken to only one other person from my state who "was" paid like we are, and they were able to get three years back pay for it being illegal to pay us in that manor. It also gave them overtime for two years due to the 24 on 48 off schedule, until the city gave them a kelly day(day off for those who dont know) to compensate them for their work schedule.
If you have come across something similar to this or have any input please let me know.
Thanks, William
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Captain Chaos on
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William...
On my Department, we work a 56 hour week, the 4-4-6 schedule (if you want to know what that is, ask and I'll add another comment). We are paid every two weeks. We get paid 112 hours per pay period (2 weeks) with an additional 3 hours of OT for the amount of time we work over the FLSA allowable per pay period. If we work OT, that goes on top of what our regular time is, at time and a half. We don't have to worry about using vacation or holiday time, if we do, it's all considered time worked so our OT hours aren't reduced.
It wasn't always this way, it took many long years of our Union negotiating for the current set up.
Sounds like you may have precedence since the other Department you mentioned was able to get it.
Good luck. AG
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Permalink Reply by William Williams on
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thank you for your post. What is 4-4-6?
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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Just make sure you play your cards right so you don't screw yourselves in the future. I think you ARE owed some serious money. When you lose the ability to do as you please your being employed. When the alarm sounds you go, end of story. Not like you can say, nah I will grab the next one I am on sleep time.
Reason I say play your cards right is they will most likely just switch you over to salary employees with a designated amount paid per week. This will end up getting ugly before it gets better, get prepared and study up.
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In a nutshell, four 24 hour days on with a day off between each day, making four work days out of seven calendar days. At the end of the tour you then get four days off. Work another tour, get six days off. Start the cycle over again.
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I just cant believe that there is not a law that plainly says this is how you will be paid....black and white with no gray. I need someone who has gone through the same thing that I am facing now. Legal advice. Ive been told by several people that if we had a Union and/or were members of the IAFF that we would be helped. Well our department threatened us with our jobs when you Union talk came out. They fear it....most likely because they are in the wrong.
How can they go and change you to salary? That doesnt seem right.
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William, even though Georgia is a Right to Work state, I seriously doubt that they can legally fire you if you join the IAFF. I found this link to the Georgia Right to Work laws, check it out:
http://www.nrtw.org/c/gartwlaw.htm
I didn't see anywhere on there that they could fire you for belonging to a Union.
For sure they can't fire you if you just check into it. Just make sure you know who your friends are.
AG
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thanks man. Yeah I had heard that they couldnt fire us for joining but, the last time it came around, we had a mole in the group who wrote down everyones name that was at the meeting and turned it into the Chief. Good thing is that that person is no longer employed where I am, so next go round may be better. I dont even know if it is worth joining though. My buddies in Savannah are apart of the IAFF and they have basically told me that they pay dues for nothing in return. Maybe there reps havent been doing anything for them, i dont know.
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Edwards on
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You guys are being railroaded. There are fact sheets throughout the internet about FLSA. Are you in Savannah? TheyIAFF will fight for injustices such as these.
http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/flsa/
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs8.pdf
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs22.pdf
Here are the Department of Labor documents on FLSA. The second two are in "black and white." You may have clause in your contract that takes away five hours of sleep time. But if you aren't gauranteed that sleep then you have to get paid.
If you want help organizing Hit me up! I will get you in contact with the proper persons.
Lumpy
President Local 1926
Annapolis Professional Firefighters
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Thanks Aaron. Still after reading the links you posted, I dont see where it says that if they cant guarantee sleep that they have to pay you. The sleep area is the only vague term on that sheet. Everything else on there is great information. Thanks.
In addition, Our Department makes us stay an extra 15 mins on shift to make it 24.25 hours worked each shift. Then when we take leave, we have to use 24.25 hours of leave even though if we were there we would only get paid for 16. For the sleep time, they tell us as long as we get 5 hours of sleep that we are fine, even if it is broken sleep they dont care as long as it is at least 5 hours.
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William,
No you have to understand, I have only put in a few minutes looking into this. But,
"Hours of work include all of the time an employee is on duty at the employer's establishment or at a prescribed work place, as well as all other time during which the employee is suffered or permitted to work for the employer. Under certain specified conditions time spent in sleeping and eating may be excluded from compensable time."
This was taken directly from the FLSA for fire and police. The underlined portion seems pretty clear that the City has the ability to not pay you for the sleep. But they also have to give you at least 5 "gauranteed" hours of sleep.
"Sleeping Time and Certain Other Activities: An employee who is required to be on duty for less than 24 hours is working even though he/she is permitted to sleep or engage in other personal activities when not busy. An employee required to be on duty for 24 hours or more may agree with the employer to exclude from hours worked bona fide regularly scheduled sleeping periods of not more than 8 hours, provided adequate sleeping facilities are furnished by the employer and the employee can usually enjoy an uninterrupted night's sleep. No reduction is permitted unless at least 5 hours of sleep is taken."
The underlined portion here states that if you do not receive at least 5 hours of underinterrupted sleep, they have to pay you.
YOu really need to push the Union issue on the City. Where are you located? If you would rather email me then you can. (res38cue@comcast.net)
How big is your department? Not that it matters but the more you have the louder your voice can be.
What is your current shift?
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Permalink Reply by lang on
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my paid dept we have a group schedule 7 groups 3 groups on a day we work 4 shifts 24 on 24 off then we get a 2 day break then we work 4 cycles of that on are long week we work 5 shifts before getting are 2 day then every 7 weeks we get a 4 day break (fri, sat, sun mon) then everything starts all over again. then again i am a military fire fighter so i'm saliered i get payed the same amount no matter how busier or how slow we are. we have a ems company that runs or at least ran like you guys they work 24 on 48 off and got paid from like 8 am till 2 am and any calls in that 6 hours they got paid overtime per call or something like that
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Aaron I sent you an email. Check it when you get a chance and get back with me. Thanks.
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