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Hazing or paying the dues?
This is very likely to piss of the old timers, but I want to start talking about it, in hopes that our industry can find what it really needs and dispense with what is either outdated or does not work. I found this advice on a fire website today, and while some of the items are great advice, others really smack of hazing and a lack of teamwork. I am going to publish the original in black and my thoughts on it in parentheses. I would like to see what kind of discussion this prompts to find out where the industry is. If everyone thinks all of these are all OK then I will shut up, but I think some of these do nothing but create an environment of hostility between rookies and old timers.
Advice for the Rookie Firefighter!
1) Nobody cares how you did it at the Academy, or at your last job. You have not done anything here yet. (You should care how it was done at the academy. If the Academy isn’t teaching real world, then change it, and if the Academy isn’t preparing rookies for what they will find on the job it is up to you to either change the academy or the rookie.)
2) We don’t need to know your name. Your name will be probie, new guy, newbie or rookie until we say otherwise. (Rookies deserve no less respect than the citizens we serve, in fact, most deserve a bit more, simply because they care enough to be in the fire house. Use their names.)
3) Don’t walk around the station calling everybody Sir. That is reserved for Officers and your Dad.
4) Remember: your mom, wife or girlfriends do not work here. Pick up after yourself.
5) Stay off of the cell phone.
6) When sitting around the kitchen table, listen but don’t speak unless spoken to. You will learn a lot more that way. (A good way to learn, but a bad way to teach. Rookies might learn much if they were encouraged to ask questions.)
7) If you don’t know how to use a tool or a piece of equipment, you better tell somebody. Ask to be taught how to use it.)
8) There is no such thing as dumb questions, only dumb answers. Ask questions that pertain to your job.
9) Don’t wait to be told to do something. (But don’t punish rookies for not knowing exactly what needs to be done at every minute, either, they look to you for guidance, so guide them.)
10) If a senior Firefighter is up doing something, you need to be up and doing something. (Ask what you might help with, and don't just do that and then sit down. Old timers, don't just sit around watching the rookie work, either!)
11) We eat together. If you bring food from home bring enough for everyone.
12) At meal time you should be the last one sitting down to eat and the first one getting up to clean the dishes. (This is true, but a good company officer will make sure his personnel eat first. This is good leadership.)
13) There should never be any dirty dishes in the sink, full garbage cans in the station, or dirty trucks in the bay. That is what you are there for. Know your role. (All these are true, but should not be the responsibility of the rookie alone. The crew is a team, and rookies get the wrong idea if they are the only ones doing the shit jobs in the station.)
14) The most important tool in the firehouse for a rookie is a mop. Learn how to use one. (The most important tool in a fire house is the senior personnel, who can teach you better than the academy, learning how to work with them is paramount. Mops are important too, but the whole crew needs to know how they are used, and needs to show that they are willing to use them.)
15) If you don’t know how to cook, learn!
16) Don’t sit down until you are told to.
17) If you have nothing to do, find something to clean.
18) If the coffee pot is empty make a fresh pot. (Nothing annoys me more than waste, and a pot of coffee sitting for countless hours burning dry is not helpful. Ask if anyone wants more coffee before you make some that will only sit.)
19) Riding backwards on a Fire truck is a privilege. (Riding forwards is a PUNISHMENT!! So never become an officer.)
20) You have two hands make sure you bring two tools with you when you get off of the truck.
21) When on the Fireground, don’t take off your gear until told.
22) You were given PPE, wear all of it. (It is the responsibility of the old timers to set the example! This rule often apples to the veterans more than the rookies! Rookies are taught to wear all PPE in the academy, and haven’t had years of bad habits to get lazy about it. Very rarely do we read stories of rookies getting injured due to incomplete PPE, more often, it seems to be the veterans.)
23) Don’t lay your tools, gear or equipment down. (EXCEPT in their proper locations on the truck.)
24) If there is a voluntary training available, sign up for it. If there is a fundraiser, sign up for it. If a Firefighter needs a swap, step up and do it for him. If you are invited some where by other firefighters show up.
25) Try before you pry.
26) If you are afraid, that is ok, so were we. If a Firefighter says he is not scared, he is probably lying.
27) Your hands and your eyes are the most important. Always protect them.
28) All downed wires are LIVE.
29) The guy with the most soot on his face saw the least amount of fire.
30) Every firefighter carries a knife.
31) Whatever is said, seen or heard in a Firehouse needs to stay in the Firehouse. (Assuming what is said or done is legal and in the best interest of the department.)
32) Know where you are going before you leave the Firehouse.
33) If you break, lose or damage something, tell someone.
34) Nobody will see you do something good but everybody will see you screw something up.
35) Learn how to read a map.
36) This is not just a job. It is a Brotherhood. Learn what that means.
37) Respect is earned, not given out. (Respect should be given out until the individual has shown he or she is not worthy of it.)
38) Have Pride. You are now in the best Profession in the world. Act like it!!
39) Work hard to prove yourself. That is how you become accepted into the fold.
40) Don’t complain about doing your job. Nobody wants to hear it.
I would like to hear what folks have to say about it. Like I said, I know some of you out there will say that this is the way we’ve always done it, and in your departments you are probably right, but is it the best way to do things? Is this the best example we can offer rookies.
When I started in the fire service in 1991, I was welcomed into my department with a very positive attitude. I was treated like a valued member of the team from the first day, and expected to perform to the best of my training and ability from the start. I stood with a mop in my hand right next to my Lieutenants and Captains as we kept the station as a team. If anything the rookies had to do extra training rather than extra work around the station, and personally, I would rather have well trained rookies on my rig than good floor moppers. I know this is the exception rather than the rule, but I think it serves the goal of our industry better than the “way we’ve always done it.”
What do you all think?
Advice for the Rookie Firefighter!
1) Nobody cares how you did it at the Academy, or at your last job. You have not done anything here yet. (You should care how it was done at the academy. If the Academy isn’t teaching real world, then change it, and if the Academy isn’t preparing rookies for what they will find on the job it is up to you to either change the academy or the rookie.)
2) We don’t need to know your name. Your name will be probie, new guy, newbie or rookie until we say otherwise. (Rookies deserve no less respect than the citizens we serve, in fact, most deserve a bit more, simply because they care enough to be in the fire house. Use their names.)
3) Don’t walk around the station calling everybody Sir. That is reserved for Officers and your Dad.
4) Remember: your mom, wife or girlfriends do not work here. Pick up after yourself.
5) Stay off of the cell phone.
6) When sitting around the kitchen table, listen but don’t speak unless spoken to. You will learn a lot more that way. (A good way to learn, but a bad way to teach. Rookies might learn much if they were encouraged to ask questions.)
7) If you don’t know how to use a tool or a piece of equipment, you better tell somebody. Ask to be taught how to use it.)
8) There is no such thing as dumb questions, only dumb answers. Ask questions that pertain to your job.
9) Don’t wait to be told to do something. (But don’t punish rookies for not knowing exactly what needs to be done at every minute, either, they look to you for guidance, so guide them.)
10) If a senior Firefighter is up doing something, you need to be up and doing something. (Ask what you might help with, and don't just do that and then sit down. Old timers, don't just sit around watching the rookie work, either!)
11) We eat together. If you bring food from home bring enough for everyone.
12) At meal time you should be the last one sitting down to eat and the first one getting up to clean the dishes. (This is true, but a good company officer will make sure his personnel eat first. This is good leadership.)
13) There should never be any dirty dishes in the sink, full garbage cans in the station, or dirty trucks in the bay. That is what you are there for. Know your role. (All these are true, but should not be the responsibility of the rookie alone. The crew is a team, and rookies get the wrong idea if they are the only ones doing the shit jobs in the station.)
14) The most important tool in the firehouse for a rookie is a mop. Learn how to use one. (The most important tool in a fire house is the senior personnel, who can teach you better than the academy, learning how to work with them is paramount. Mops are important too, but the whole crew needs to know how they are used, and needs to show that they are willing to use them.)
15) If you don’t know how to cook, learn!
16) Don’t sit down until you are told to.
17) If you have nothing to do, find something to clean.
18) If the coffee pot is empty make a fresh pot. (Nothing annoys me more than waste, and a pot of coffee sitting for countless hours burning dry is not helpful. Ask if anyone wants more coffee before you make some that will only sit.)
19) Riding backwards on a Fire truck is a privilege. (Riding forwards is a PUNISHMENT!! So never become an officer.)
20) You have two hands make sure you bring two tools with you when you get off of the truck.
21) When on the Fireground, don’t take off your gear until told.
22) You were given PPE, wear all of it. (It is the responsibility of the old timers to set the example! This rule often apples to the veterans more than the rookies! Rookies are taught to wear all PPE in the academy, and haven’t had years of bad habits to get lazy about it. Very rarely do we read stories of rookies getting injured due to incomplete PPE, more often, it seems to be the veterans.)
23) Don’t lay your tools, gear or equipment down. (EXCEPT in their proper locations on the truck.)
24) If there is a voluntary training available, sign up for it. If there is a fundraiser, sign up for it. If a Firefighter needs a swap, step up and do it for him. If you are invited some where by other firefighters show up.
25) Try before you pry.
26) If you are afraid, that is ok, so were we. If a Firefighter says he is not scared, he is probably lying.
27) Your hands and your eyes are the most important. Always protect them.
28) All downed wires are LIVE.
29) The guy with the most soot on his face saw the least amount of fire.
30) Every firefighter carries a knife.
31) Whatever is said, seen or heard in a Firehouse needs to stay in the Firehouse. (Assuming what is said or done is legal and in the best interest of the department.)
32) Know where you are going before you leave the Firehouse.
33) If you break, lose or damage something, tell someone.
34) Nobody will see you do something good but everybody will see you screw something up.
35) Learn how to read a map.
36) This is not just a job. It is a Brotherhood. Learn what that means.
37) Respect is earned, not given out. (Respect should be given out until the individual has shown he or she is not worthy of it.)
38) Have Pride. You are now in the best Profession in the world. Act like it!!
39) Work hard to prove yourself. That is how you become accepted into the fold.
40) Don’t complain about doing your job. Nobody wants to hear it.
I would like to hear what folks have to say about it. Like I said, I know some of you out there will say that this is the way we’ve always done it, and in your departments you are probably right, but is it the best way to do things? Is this the best example we can offer rookies.
When I started in the fire service in 1991, I was welcomed into my department with a very positive attitude. I was treated like a valued member of the team from the first day, and expected to perform to the best of my training and ability from the start. I stood with a mop in my hand right next to my Lieutenants and Captains as we kept the station as a team. If anything the rookies had to do extra training rather than extra work around the station, and personally, I would rather have well trained rookies on my rig than good floor moppers. I know this is the exception rather than the rule, but I think it serves the goal of our industry better than the “way we’ve always done it.”
What do you all think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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I'd suggest you read this then go and have read of my blog on RESPECT in my profile- the sort of attitides in this are exactly what p**ses me off about the fire service.
It really gets me worked up to read things like-
Nobody cares how you did it at the Academy, or at your last job. You have not done anything here yet.
We don’t need to know your name. Your name will be probie, new guy, newbie or rookie until we say otherwise.
When sitting around the kitchen table, listen but don’t speak unless spoken to. You will learn a lot more that way.
At meal time you should be the last one sitting down to eat and the first one getting up to clean the dishes.
There should never be any dirty dishes in the sink, full garbage cans in the station, or dirty trucks in the bay.
And the absolute ripper for me-
This is not just a job. It is a Brotherhood. Learn what that means.
If this is how brotherhoods are, and how brothers are going to be treated, then who wants to be a a part of it?
The Fire Service MUST change it's old school, testosterone driven ways and move forward- nurture the recruits and move with the times....
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Permalink Reply by Bobby King on
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I started Fighting Fire in 2003 I have to admit that I feel as much at home at the Firehouse as I do at My own Home.. There was a bit of Hazing me being the new guy and all but Hey at least it wasnt drinking orange juice out of somebodys old nasty fire boot or something .. I think that the ribbing and the jokes that are played on Newbies are just a way to make the family stronger. in My house You dont got a Name till You earn One.. Mine is Roughstock or Grizz / Rode a Bronc on a Dare in Ohio.. ( Roughstock) and first Month on the Job I couldnt get up a slick muddy wet hill so I Bear Crawled up the hill and a veteran seen it and Said I looked like a Grizzly bear coming up the hill there and I grunted just as Much lol ..
Firefighters are almost like White shirts.. Best when New..
Straight out of the Academy Your not Corrupted by Bad habits or anything else..
Now as Time Goes on Sometimes the White shirt gets a Bit Dingy but I think its up to Us as Individuals to always Make Sure We are doing what We can to keep Ourselves on the up and up and Our Probies as well..
Sgt King
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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I have 20+ years in the service. I feel there is a fine line about how to treat the rookies. There is gonna be ( and needs to be ) some hazing or ribbing or whatever you want to call it. This instills somewhat that there is a pecking order. I have seen a dramatic increase in the last 10 or so years of probies coming on the job and thinking that we ( senior ffs, or officers, and the dept in general ) owe them something. They show up for work and think they are equals to everyone else. They like to pipe in their 2 cents worth on every subject, bust peoples balls like veterans, act like they have been there and done that. They have 2 months on the job and act like they have 20 yrs. This comes from society in general. I feel busting their balls will help keep them in check. I agree that you should work with them and mold them as needed, but dont be afraid to put them in their place. It should not go to the extent of scaring them for life, but make them understand their place.
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way! While I certainly don't expect a rookie to walk on the job and be treated like a chief, I think basic human respect comes into play at some point, right? Rookies have come a long way from civilians to be in the station where they are assigned, and that work deserves some respect
Old timers are often not open to anything a rookie might have to say, and this really limits the spread of new methods and technology, as it gets taught in the academy first, then out into the field with the rookies. If the rookie has no say, he or she will be 'broken' by the old timers, and whatever the academy taught will turn into jaded compliance with the way it has always been done.
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Don't get me wrong- I'm not anti busitng a bit of balls and ribbing, but if you look at the 5 points in my first reply (In italics)- that's just BS!
You're just as capable of putting the trash out. I can ask as many questions as I want- if I am to learn, you'd better answer. Last one sitting at the table- BS!!!
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Nobody is preaching that we can't have a little fun at rookies expense, or each other's for that matter, but keep it in an environment of respect! If you do plan on hazing, make it something that will make a better firefighter, not something that will damage the team ethic. There are tons of ways to put rookies into situations that will allow you to get your jollies, while still educating them and making them stronger and more confident in their abilities.
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Permalink Reply by T.j. on
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I have 9 yrs in and if it wasnt for my current chief getting me to leave my old department I probably would have left after the first yr. I was treated like shit constantly. I was thrown in dumpsters and rolled down streets, beaten with poles, chased with staple guns, etc. and I was not the only one, every junior that was brought into this station was treated this way. The worst part is it was two of the three paid drivers that iniciated all of these attacks. They were then followed by the older volunteers of the department. Luckily the station I am at now we all work as a team. We are, with the exception of a few, the definiton of a brotherhood.
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I was thrown in dumpsters and rolled down streets, beaten with poles, chased with staple guns, etc. and I was not the only one, every junior that was brought into this station was treated this way.
Brotherhood at its best!
Glad you've seen the light and enjoy the new department, as it should be....
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It got to the point where I was treated well like a punching bag, the chief at the time refused to let me take classes and no one wanted to show me how to do anything. I have done everything I can do, taken classes, and gained the respect of the older guys at my station. I have been put in as Chief Engineer and I am wanted to learn more due to us having few members. They are looking at it as we, the younger generation, is the future of the station.
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Permalink Reply by Cody Scott on
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Ok first off let me say i agree with you that times need to change. But i can also say I'm not against all of these. I just finished my probationary term with my current department. And when i was a rookie, I cooked, took out the trashed, washed trucks, cleaned the fire station. But it was a group of rookies doing it, not veterans. And to that was fine, we had to do the grunt work, but when it came time for training. The Veterans were side by side teaching us how tools worked and our job on a fire scene. I think that every rookie needs to prove himself or herself to the department before they get to much respect. Veterans need to respect the rookies just like anyone else. But to get the respect that mean, "I got your Back in a fire" needs to be earned. And until you show the guy's at the station you can handle it and prove yourself. Don't be mad if they give you a bad time.
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Sorry Cody, but I struggle to understand how me taking out your trash proves that I've got your back....
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I guess the point of going through an academy is to prove yourself, and any station who gets a rookie should remember how tough the academy was and remember that this rookie had paid the dues. If you graduate your academy, you have accomplished something, but if the point to Probationary status is to provide a work bitch for the senior staff, then there is a problem with probation. No, a probie is not on the level of the senior staff, but neither is he some whacker off the street. You prove yourself best by being a team player, and your seniors prove their value by the same action. The team builds cohesion by doing the job together, not by the old guys watching the rookies do the shit jobs, and that means the whole job not just the glamour stuff when the tones go off.
Any senior man who is willing to sit by while a rookie washes the rig, is just not very proud of his rig or his job, meanwhile there are plenty of rookies that are really so proud to be on the job that they march right into whatever abuse there might be waiting for them.
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