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Why don't we copy the French Fire Helmet Designs?
One of the coolest things I have ever received in the mail, ever... arrived at my house a couple of days ago. It was from one of the friends I made here on the FFN, and he is from France, where he works as a professional firefighter. Like many firefighters, we both like fire service related things and are involved with trading things back and forth. What amazed me however, was the functional design that I saw first hand.
Up to this point, I have only seen photographs of french firefighters wearing a very unfamiliar fire helmet style. To be honest, I blew off the design because they just did not look like fire helmets. After having the chance to actually wear one, I offer the following insight for those, like myself, who never have had the chance to see what our brothers and sisters across the Atlantic wear for head and face protection.
The world just keeps getting smaller... I invite everyone to take the time to get to know others around the world with the spirit of sharing and providing the most up to date training and response information available. We are not alone, we have each other.
Prenez garde à rester en sécurité, (TCSS)
CBz
The Casque Pompier (Fire Helmet):
Built in Safety Goggles:
Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
View Through Fire Helmet Protective Visor / Heat Shield:
Fire Helmet Heat Shield:
05-25-2010 Update: I made direct contact today with MSA and spoke with one of two sales reps that have knowledge of the French Gallet F1-SF Firefighter Helmet. Here's what I learned:
• These "French" fire helmets are manufactured by MSA, which is 100% USA owned and is based internationally out of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
• MSA bought out the french company Gallet 7-8 years ago, which included this helmet design and manufacturing rights.
• Existing USA style fire helmets are rated to no more than 1500˚F, while this particular style is rated to 1800˚F. Why more? The same technology used by NASA for astronaut helmets visors are incorporated into this design. Both the helmet and face shield reflect the heat, keeping the interior of the helmet cool, with maximum interior helmet temperatures reaching around 95˚F.
• The existing F1-SF helmet does not meet NA standards as mentioned in one of the posts. However, there is such a demand now for this style that MSA is working on providing a NA approved helmet that has the same features but also possesses the necessary impact standards.
• What we are looking at is a glimpse of what the 21st century firefighters are going to be wearing, internationally...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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Oh yeah I forgot about those. But would the mask be compatable with the French helmets?
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Hey John,
You have to actually put one of these on to figure out that someone has done their homework. Keep in mind, the "tradional" cairns style helmets were designed a couple of hundred years ago, right? Just the concept of using a reflective covering to minimize heat exposure gives you a clue here.
The helmets are lighweight and very comfortable to wear, protecting the sides of the face from radiant heat and direct contact, which is a hell of a lot more than our standard helmet types. And the ability to have full face protection while doing USAR, in earthquake scenarios, this would not be a bad hit in my opinion. Our USAR helmets use the smaller footprint, the only difference is the side protection and pull down visor.
Bottom Line: For those who say that you don't want to copy the french... ha ha ha... this is an american made product that we ship to France. Just look up MSA and follow the bread crumbs.
TCSS, CBz
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Permalink Reply by Sune Schønnemann on
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They actually also make MSA Gallet USAR Helmets..
Here is a pic:
Not the best quality sorry.. We have both the firehelmets and the USAR helmets..
We have the fire helmets on our engine and water tender..
USAR helmets are located on our Incident Support Vehicle and on our USAR/Heavy Rescue vehicles..
It's really nice to be able to change to the USAR helmet if you are for example doing wildfire or similar..
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If the helmet is falling forward, then you need a smaller helmet.... (If it's the heat shield then the unit is faulty).. Never heard of there problems in Denmark or experienced anything like it myself..
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I don't know what masks/SBCAs you use in the US, but in Denmark (DEMA) we use MSA Airgo Maxx and MSA AirGo..
Before that we used Dräger PA80 and PA96..
All above masks fit perfectly for the helmet..
Can't really see what parts of your SCBA need to be changed.. Most masks fit (haven't heard of any that doesn't)
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Also, I can't do anything but smile a bit about people calling this helmet "the future" and leatherhelmets the past..
Also saw a guy saying he really liked the idea of having a heat shield in the neck..
Both of these things came to Europe in the late 40's..
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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The reality is this: If a different style of helmet, SCBA or PPE is proven to be more effective or safer, at some point it will become required throughout the US. It's about doing the job in the safest and most effective way. Tradition dies hard, never more so than in the US fire service but if hard, empirical data proves that using a "European" style helmet (or some other future design) IS safer and more effective, we will end up wearing it.
Personally I like my leather, but if my department decided to go in another direction I don't have a choice as to what I'm going to wear. And tradition be damned, it's damn hard to argue with being safer on the job.
"In matters of style, swim with the current, in matters of principal, stand like a rock."
Thomas Jefferson.
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Traditions is a wonderfull thing..
I myself love them and would wish we had more of them in Denmark..
But I also believe that when it comes to safety, then tradition is nothing..
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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"...if hard, empirical data proves that using a "European" style helmet (or some other future design) IS safer and more effective, we will end up wearing it."
Not necessarily true, Jack. There are many things which are shown by hard data to be safer, yet for many reasons, they are not required throughout the U.S. Your example of the Leather helmet is an example, hard empirical data has shown for a while that composite helmets are safer, yet enough people hold on to the idea that a helmet that becomes soft when hot is safer. So helmets of modern materials are not required throughout the U.S.
In fact there is very little which is actually required throughout the U.S. in the Fire Service. NFPA standards may call for something to be universally used, but in the end it is up to the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) to decide whether or not to adopt the NFPA standard.
Does Chicago still wear high boots and long coats instead of bunker pants? They did for a long time after NFPA called for bunker pants. Who still uses Burkes when doing extrication instead of safety glasses, goggles or Defender Eye Shields as primary eye protection?
Another great example is chevrons on apparatus. Hard data show that Chevrons make your vehicle more visible both day and night and that apparatus who have chevrons are struck from behind less than vehicles without chevrons, and now NFPA calls for apparatus to have chevrons. They're great (not everybody likes how they look, but so what?) but it is up the AHJ to decide if and when to order their next truck or engine with chevrons. There could be monetary consequences to not having them, but it is the AHJ's decision to make.
My bottom line is that just because it is proven better, or safer, does not mean it will be required throughout the U.S.
Greenman
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If it's safer, it shouldn't really be required..
It should be in the interest of all firefighters and all departments to change their equipment to something safer..
But maybe that's just in my little world?
I know that in DEMA, every time we need to change some old equipment, we spend time researching to find out if something on the market is better.. No reason to change a an old helmet for a new one of the same kind, if there has been invented a better on in the meantime..
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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There are many things which are shown by hard data to be safer, yet for many reasons, they are not required throughout the U.S. Your example of the Leather helmet is an example, hard empirical data has shown for a while that composite helmets are safer, yet enough people hold on to the idea that a helmet that becomes soft when hot is safer. So helmets of modern materials are not required throughout the U.S.
My bottom line is that just because it is proven better, or safer, does not mean it will be required throughout the U.S.
I wonder how that'd stand up in a lawsuit if it can be proven that a particular line of PPE is safer, with solid data to prove it, yet we chose not to adapt it for whatever reason....????
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Permalink Reply by Jason Koontz on
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Honestly, they look like they'd function well in structures and on MVA's, but the air flow on wildland would be horrible. I'd like to try one out, but I'll admit, even though I'm not a huge proponet of doing things simply because we've always done them, it would be hard to get rid of my traditional. I usually buy my own, simply because I know what works for me, what I feel safest wearing, and whats most effective for me. If my department wants me to wear a certain type, I'm sure we'd have a discussion if I felt the helmet is below the standard I'm comfortable with. I've heard good and bad about every type of helmet, and all seem to be good points, but I'd still like to try them out for myself. Besides, another reason to go in and play with fire, right?
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