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What Is Your Approach?
How would your department handle this scene?Theres alot goin on here so lets hear your different attacks!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Fabulous Heather Days of Summer on
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so ben, i did not say you were name calling.
you were however defending "calling me out" (which had included name calling)
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I don't disagree.... it costs money to operate a fire department regardless of their status. Smart fire department leaders seek ways to financially exist.
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Permalink Reply by Doug on
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Are you replying to me DamnThing? I think you have me confused with someone else, perhaps? I posted one reply, out of all of those threads, and it stated that I was simply getting a headache from reading all of that, most of it crap.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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No, Heather, the calling you out and the namecalling were two seperate things that happened to be stated in single posts.
I was defending those who called you out, not necessarily the manner in which it was done.
Accuracy, please.
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Permalink Reply by Herb Genelly III on
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Ben seems to be on a personal crusade to fix posters, one thread at a time...LOL
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Heather, please address complaints about name calling to the people who actually did it. I did not.
I even suggested alternate language in which you could get your point across without having the appearance of racism, or bigotry to all of those Maoris, Chinese, and Hungarians that come across the border from Mexico that you described.
Or....were you maybe just talking about Mexicans but trying to make it look as if you weren't? If not, just exactly who WERE you talking about.
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Ben: Point - taken. I will address the name calling another way - directly.
I was not talking about ANY race or creed - I was discussing arriving on scene and finding MORE PATIENTS in a car - than expected - lots more. HUMAN TRAFFICKING is common near to me !!!
And I tried to CLARIFY - and use clearer language - but you won't let me. Not all of us are as crafty with words as you. But I was trying to improve the way I was making my point.
We're straight - no more clarity needed ;-)
Not sure how this conversation got so far askew - I should not follow such bunny trails (or create them).
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Heather,
The point is that when you tried to clarify, it sounded as if you were just going deeper into biases against citizens of a certain country.
Language isn't about being "crafty". The words and phrasing chosen tell the listeners and readers a lot about the author's state of mind.
Your words were not neutral, and that's why you were called out.
All I'm saying is that if you really are not racist or biased, find a way to avoid labels in the words you choose.
Tactically speaking, I've always done - and taught - the old principles of the Inner and Outer Circle searches at MVCs. Among other things, those ensure that you find all of the patients - however many of them might be present.
The minivans and the multi-vehicle pileup are clues to look for multiple patients. It doesn't matter if this takes place in El Paso or Kansas City, the size-up basics are the same.
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Permalink Reply by Beverly on
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OK, since we all have different dispatch protocols, let me just state that I will be going by LOCAL protocol...your's may (and probably will be) different.
1. Fire, EMS and Police are all dispatched together. Fire and EMS usually arrive within seconds of one another, PD has a longer response time.
2. Fire assumes Incident Command...we are lucky enough to have either our Chief or one of 2 Assistant Chiefs on all calls within minutes ( we are rural and not all dept in our county can say that)
3. Responding EMS units will have one person assume EMS Command.
4. Dispatch protocol will automatically place the helicopter on standby, with the potential for lengthy extrication the helicopter may opt for an "air standby" which will cut down the 15 minute response time.
Now that the protocols are understood:
SCENE SIZE UP
For our area this is an MCI. There are at least 5 vehicles involved in the accident, the possibilities of pt count ranges from 5 to 25 or more depending on occupancy. Also as we are unable to view the entire scene there may be pedestrians involved. Determine # of pts., necessary extrication and possible transport priorities.
The vehicles involved appear to be in a potentially unstable arrangement with other hazards including traffic flow, leaking fluids, potential for ignition and collapse of the vehicle pyramid.
FIRE RESPONSE
First and foremost RESPONDER SAFETY. Use Responding non rescue trucks to block traffic ( remember PD takes a while) but leave access for Rescue. If possible without shifting the pile cut the battery cables of both black cars. I realize that all cars should be disabled but the potential for instability is a factor in the risk vs reward consideration. A minimum of 2 charged lines ( one to each side), the smallest fire may result in an inordinate increase of instability and difficulty in rescue. Blocking underneath all vehicles is mandatory, deflating tires is not an option due to the potential shifting of vehicles. Also, using struts to stabilize the 2 vehicles that are off the ground. The 3 vehicles with all tires on the ground appear to have access to the passenger compartments without the use of extrication equipment.
Set Up LZ as necessary.
EMS RESPONSE
Multiple ambulances must be called, our local EMS has 2 crews on during the day, next nearest is 10-12 minutes away and after that the next is 15-18 minutes. As stated above the helicopter will also be "in play".
Once the first 3 vehicles are stabilized EMS can conduct rapid assessment of the occupants while the other 2 vehicles are being stabilized. Pts in the first 3 vehicles can be stabilized, removed from the vehicle and treated/transported as needed. Better to treat/transport lower priority pts with the first arriving crews and allow the pts who will require longer extrication time to be treated/transported by other units who are farther away but will arrive before they are extricated.
CONTINUED EFFORTS
Once the vehicles are stabilized and pts with easy access are removed the difficulty then is extricating pts from the remaining vehicles. The black vehicle in the rear could be removed without much risk. Without seeing a 360 view of the remaining vehicles I am not quite sure where I would place access to the passenger compartments of the other vehicles however, rescuer safety is still the priority. Access through the drivers side doors may offer the best potential for pt access, although it presents the problem of pts shifting due to gravity and the angle the vehicles are on.
Once all pts are cleared of the vehicles there is still the consideration of how to safely remove cribbing and struts and other stabilization equipment while the tow trucks remove the vehicles; just because pts have been removed doesn't mean the incident is over.
I'm sure that there are issues I have not addressed but it does all come down to safety, ours and the pts.
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Permalink Reply by M.J. 6821 on
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Ben and Heather not long after I joined Fire/EMS we were called to a MVA that involved a minivan we arrived and there were a lot of cars stopped along the highway with a large group of people standing around with 3 victims laying on the ground. We started treating one of the victims and she said wheres my mom? The other 2 victims were male so one of my crew got up and asked the crowd if you were in the van raise your hand. Instantly 8 hands went in the air. Thats what we get for assuming the victims were all on the ground.
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Permalink Reply by Rod Irvine on
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i like , simple and often the most effective
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Permalink Reply by Chris Weber on
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Stabilize,stabilize and stabilize.Then do your patient assesments and start initial treatments.Actually the first thing we would do is call for MA heavy rescue.Deploy a line for safety and appoint a safety officer.That van in the middle of the pile looks pretty unstable.Depending on the stability of the vehicles and the previous information given on patients,MIGHT have to remove patient(s) from the red van and have a couple of good hook operators very carefully remove it first.All depends on how stable the pileup is.If there was even a question about stabilty I wouldd not send an extrication team to remove the patient(s) from the middle van.Don't need any more patients.
Good scenario.Really makes the old gray matter between the ears work a little bit.
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