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NFPA and Tribal Fire Departments
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if a Fire Dept on tribal land, have to follow the same NFPA standards and/or regulations. Like what if there starting a brand new Fire Dept, or with training in general. Are they more likely to get grants or funding more readily than non tribal departments??? Any info would be greatly appreciated, Thanks....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Unless the NFPA standards have been adopted by reference in some sort of federal, state, local, or tribal law, then no fire department is obligated to follow them.
NFPA standards are voluntary, minimum standards. It is smart to comply with them, but for most it is not required.
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Permalink Reply by Bull on
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So, I could fight a fire interior without the proper training if my department would let me ??? Just as an example Im using this question....
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Permalink Reply by Timothy D. Stone Jr on
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Yes. But if you get hurt your dept could get in big trouble for sending you in untrained. I think thats how it is in Ga.
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How can they get in trouble if there is no law or rule stating you need to comply ???
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Bull,
I see you are in WI. If NFPA standards are not adopted, it doesn't mean that one can just arbitrarily fight fire without proper training because the State does make that minimum requirement. Here in WI, Comm 30 is the governing standard for fire depts and does spell out the minimum requirements to be a FF and operate as such.
Meaning a FF here must have the basic Entry Level FF requirement to be a volunteer FF and to be utilized in a fire. The state itself has adopted certain NFPA standards and those are the minimum requirements tribal, local, or state type of depts have to follow. Individual depts (communities) can further adopt other NFPA standards above state standards, but Comm 30 for WI does establish the minimum.
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Bull,
That depends on your definition of "proper training". Most states require fire departments to meet the minimum legal standard for interior structural firefighting, which is set by OSHA, not the NFPA.
There are departments that don't meet the NFPA standards in some areas.
There are some that don't even try.
There are departments that meet the NFPA standards for basic training, then do things differently under the "We teach them the NFPA way, then we teach them how we actually do it" plan.
OSHA is a regulatory agency. NFPA is not.
You are legally bound to comply with OSHA regulations.
Compliance with NFPA standards is voluntary.
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It's called the "reasonable man" standard by the legal system.
You are expected to do what a "reasonable man" would do in the same circumstances when you go to a fire.
NFPA standards have been cited in OSHA General Duty Clause enforcement actions that resulted in large fines (and lots of bad publicity) for fire departments.
NFPA standards have also been used by plaintiff's attorneys to show that fire departments didn't comply with - or in some cases, even know about - the NFPA standards.
The NFPA standards are the only really nationwide standards for our profession that were written by firefighters. That makes them a good source of the "reasonable man" standard for attorneys.
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As he said...
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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it is like a comp case.....you are actually "working" for them even as a volunteer...if you get hurt they are responsible....a Department (and Chief) can be found guilty of negligence if they put you into a situation for which you aren't trained.....Probably the first this a lawyer will want to see are the training records....guess what...? If it isn't in writting then it wasn't done....in the eyes of the law. There can also be civil suits filed....that's why we get so anal about ages and certifications and training.....Lawsuits in the past have actually closed Departments down....
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OSHA and PESH are Laws...NFPA are guidelines....Both will come into play if a case goes to court.....we had to review a legal case during our Fire Officer I class......the lawyers certainly don't play nice......a Department argued that they don't have to follow NFPA....the lawyer asked them about their turn-out gear...Was it NFPA approved..? It was....they asked about the apparatus...Did it meet NFPA...the answer was yes, of course...He then argued that one cannot randomly pick what NFPA guidelines to follow and what ones to ignore.......the Department lost big time......Just something to think about.....
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We have an Indian reservation nearby...they are NOT bound by State or Federal rules or laws....they are considered a Soverign Nation and have their own that they enforce.....they tend to do quite well with Federal money due to agreements and treaties set in the past
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Thanks for all the replies. My biggest concern was I know they are a soverign nation. So they dont need to follow certain laws put down by the state or federal level, is this correct ??? And if it is correct, how and why are they eligible for state and federal money ??? Sorry for sounding so dumb, but Im just trying to understand this unique situation.
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