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No Pay? No Play!
Here's another story of a homeowner who didn't pay the subscription fee for fire protection, believing that, if he had a fire, the fire department would come anyway.
He was wrong.
This follows the same line of thinking of districts who shut down their departments, believing that, if they needed fire protection, they could rely on mutual aid.
What is wrong with that thinking?
Read the story from Tennessee: http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Firefighters-watch-as-home-bur...
TCSS.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Luechtefeld on
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Several years ago, The Onion nailed the truth of this situation as only a fictional newspaper can:
Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department
http://www.theonion.com/articles/libertarian-reluctantly-calls-fire...
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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if you are on vacation get in an MVA on my highway in my district...and YOUR license plate says you are from Alaska....and we roll up on scene and see the plate do we leave??...JUST because you are not from here
Not the same thing, because part of protecting a community also means the people visiting the community. Also an MVA is unlike the structure fire, such costs incurred can be recouped with insurance. If the driver has no insurance, they are still billed.
In the situation with the fire, the resident lived outside the services of another community. The community in which he resides decided that instead of incurring more tax, the burden for fire protection falls with the resident. Since this was not a life threat involved, an outside fire dept has no duty to act in a community outside the one they protect. In this case the fire dept had a duty to protect the neighbor who did pay for such services.
after 9-11 when WE all went TO help our brothers in NY ( AND I am a NYORKER ) did the taxpayers and chiefs say to all of those who went to help..say NO because of money?
It depends upon the community. Where I am the community decided not to send people to help, even though there were willing people to go. Same thing after Katrina, it was decided not to send people. The issue with money can play a factor in such things like if one were to get sick or injured while away. If they go voluntarily a community can have them sign a release that the community will not pay for work related injuries. Whereas if sent as an activated team, like say FEMA, then there are protections in place.
As such, just like after 9-11, there is no obligation by any outside fire dept to go to NYC to help with coverage, recovery etc, unless the community OK'd it.
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Permalink Reply by CHRIS PUYLARA on
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Dan...thanks for the link to their webpage...tried to leave them a message......webpage doesnt exist.....I wonder why........they must have shut it down...
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Keith Olbermann interviewed the homeowner Mr. Cranick on Countdown last nite:
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Terry,
This isn't about someone not being able to afford the service, it's about someone who chose NOT to pay for it. There are a couple of concurrent discussions on this topic and a number of links within with more information.
No one was above anyone else, other than the homeowner who felt he was above having to pay a fee for something he felt he didn't/wouldn't need. And this was NOT in the city limits, it was in an unincorporated part of the county, in an area in which an assessment was made 2 1/2 years ago pointing out how a county-wide fire service was badly needed and how the 8 municipal fire departments could not fiscally afford to be responding out of city limits for fires. As it is the $75 subscription fee is ridiculously affordable and doesn't even come close to covering expenses. Yet a homeowner felt it was unnecessary on his part. The fire department once on scene was there to protect the property of a subscriber. Not to mention that the initial fire was started accidentally by the homeowner himself while burning in his own yard.
Go back through this discussion and read all of the posts and links and visit the other similar discussions. It isn't nearly as black and white as many would seem to believe. Nor is the blame where many are placing it.
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Permalink Reply by John E Badjar Sr on
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Boy this is great, Check on home owner issurance there is money there for a department to bill the insurance company for responding , I thing it $250.00 a call. I also live in a county that has a 1/4% sale tax only in the county that is for fire and EMS. Let me also say this is a small county in New Mexico and there are 20 different department (lots of land, not many people) this fund is split 22 ways and works out to about 25K a year per dept. we also have a county radio fund and a paid ambulance service that gets a equal share of this fund. 25K over 10years what a truck payment. We are also funded though the state fire marshall by are ISO rating. My dept covers 70 sq miles 3000 home and a annual total budget 225k. I agee if there a fire fee the homeower is taken a chance not to pay but what a chance.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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If a Fire Dept. cant afford gas to go on calls.Then who pays for the gas? Most rural depts in Missouri are the same way. Its up to the tax paying voters. If u dont want a taxed base fire protection. Then u have to pay dues in order for the Fire Dept to be able to operate. This man was at fault. If he didnt pay his morgage then he would loose his home to. U dont get to go to the shoe store and pick our a pair of shoes and say, Im taking these home ill pay the store later if I decide I like them. BURN BABY BURN. If u want the wet stuff then u have to pay for it.
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Permalink Reply by Darren Wiebe on
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That's very similar to what we do here. We will always respond but in appropriate cases our governing body issues a bill for our services. The few dollars I pay per year for fire coverage is a lot less expensive than taking my changes.
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It was interesting to see the slant the story was given. Olbermann's comment about Cranick having already paid taxes, suggesting that it was only the additional $75 that he had "forgotten." He of course failed to mention that whatever taxes Cranick had paid, don't go to South Fulton but go to Obion County. But then, that would have lessened the impact of the story I suspect.
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Permalink Reply by FF Nick on
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To answer Art's question in the OP, your mutual aid is first and foremost obligated to their territory. Never depend on your mutual aid as it is just a request for help, NOT a guarantee. Same thing here... The SFFD is first and foremost obligated to those inside the city limits on South Fulton. The people in those boundaries pay for fire protection with their taxes. Seeing as there are no surrounding fire departments in the county, they have offered their equipment and manpower to those in the surrounding area. For just 365 easy payments of just 20 cents a day you too could have the same services as those in the city limits. Not a bad deal Mr. Ron Popeil... Hey that rhymed... anywho...
Look at it from this perspective, you are a resident of South Fulton, TN (this means inside the city limits). Drop all of your fire knowledge and become John Q. Public.... Now, your house catches on fire and you find out that your city's fire engine is out of the city limits at a "non subscribers" house burning down and now your house too has just burned down because your fire engine that your tax dollars paid for. Now yes, you'll probably be just as pissed had they been at a subscribers house as well but knowing that at least they're contributing would ease your rage instead of the one who got a "freebie" and was saved while yours burned.
It's a terrible thing that a man lost his house, there's no arguing that. However, when offered something when you would normally get nothing usually isn't a deal you want to pass up on. This is nothing more that a crapshoot that he 7-ed out on after the point was made.
The only somewhat argueable point there may be is that the guy said he would pay whatever the amount it took. Again though, this is another crapshoot. People will say almost anything out of desparation. Of course I, as John Q. Public, am going to tell you I'd pay you a million dollars if you extinguish my burning house. When my bill comes though guess what.... "Oh sorry, I didn't have the money. I just said that so you'd put my house out."
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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Olbermann is a twit.
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Permalink Reply by Just Plain Craig Moyer on
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Watching this just now. Tuesday on ABC..made the national news. Doesn't look good.
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