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Mayday. At what point do you just need to call in the RIT team?
Recently my department heald training at our county's smoke house. during one of the evolutions a proby from one of the other dparments panicked while inside, the two other men on his hoseline had to DRAG him out. the team anounced the exit but didn't call a mayday, by the time they got to the door myself and other members of the rit team noticed that he was unconscious. He turned out to be ok. but do you think they were right in handling it themselfs or should they have called a mayday and let the rit come in and help... I mean isn't that why we were there?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Roger Waters on
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I also agree. We, as firefighters, don't like to admit we need help. So often time that could make the difference between living or dying is lost because "we" try to solve our problem or fix our situation. We train that you have 1 minute to correct your problem, IE; being lost, separted from crew, trapped etc. After that 1 minute call your mayday to activate RIT.
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Permalink Reply by Gary Stevenson on
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Sometimes, and maybe in this instance, it was easier and more efficient to remove the FF instead of activating the RIT. It could have been when the team inside announced they were exiting they were doing so with a "freaked out" FF, not an unconscious one. If they were exiting with an unconscious FF then it should have been stated over the radio though so that medical was waiting, IMO. I had a similar experience in our flashover chamber with a FF who was acting weird. As I made them crawl out they became "heavier" at the door. It wasn't until I assisted them out the door did I realize they "checked out" on me. They quickly recovered, like yours, and we attributed their episode to nerves and improper hydration.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Sometimes, and maybe in this instance, it was easier and more efficient to remove the FF instead of activating the RIT. It could have been when the team inside announced they were exiting they were doing so with a "freaked out" FF, not an unconscious one.
My contention as well here. Also note that the OP here is a jr FF and states he was a member of the RIT team and the training was a smokehouse, not any live fire. It sounds like the paniked FF was from another dept, but to me, this sounds like some basic type of training with some very green FF's.
The MAYDAY stuff is important, but my guess here is that we are talking about several newish FFs and jr FFs doing training, not experienced and certified FF's who should have had training in calling a MAYDAY and RIT. So it is possible these students may not have known the conditions or when to call a MAYDAY. It also sounds as though the interior team notified the instructor they were coming out, but apparently didn't notify of the panicked FF.
So like you, I do agree with the importance of knowing to call a MAYDAY and so forth, but given the info given, it may have been easier and efficient to remove the FF than activating RIT, especially if there was no training or very little training of personnel.
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Permalink Reply by 2h8yobrc8vhz7 on
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i been on the rit team or 5 years now and we never got called once yet!!
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I teach alot of RIT and Managing the Mayday. This scenario would require more information to fully assess. You see firefighter survival is key to a successful rescue. Did the crew of the downed firefighter need to move him to seek refuge? Were the elements too hot to leave the nozzle to assist their fellow comrade? Then were they close enough to seek refuge and continue on the way to the exterior? I have been involved in 3 maydays, and I will tell you what we teach in training is just a base line to start from. Way too many variables to say you must do this or that. Was the guy out of air? Did he have a regulator failure and need to be moved to clean air immeidately? Waiting and sitting for RIT is not always the best option for a downed firefighter. The is a saying in the business that rapid intervention isn't rapid. I cant agree more. If the crew decided to self extricate, then yes they should have called a mayday and reported what was going on if possible, but if I was 10-20' feet from the door, the mayday call would have been after I self rescued my brother, and thus not delaying the immediate rescue. The stress involved is another thing most can't be prepared for, you say you will call the LUNAR but under fight or flight, who knows what we will do.
I agree the moment a firefighter realizes he or another is in distress someone must call a mayday if possible.
Bill
FETC Services
www.fetcservices.com
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Some info from the OP, which may help a bit.
Were the elements too hot to leave the nozzle to assist their fellow comrade?
There was no fire, this was a smokehouse
Then were they close enough to seek refuge and continue on the way to the exterior?
It doesn't sound like the crew was inside a tunnel too far, but just told the instructor they were coming out, but apparently didn't elaborate as to why.
Was the guy out of air? Did he have a regulator failure and need to be moved to clean air immeidately?
The FF in questioned apparently panicked while inside a smoke filled tunnel and the other FF's assisted in bringing him out.
The OP is a jr FF and was on the RIT team. He states this was a smokehouse, but no fire, but did not confirm if this was theatrical non-toxic smoke, which if there is no fire and since this is training is my guess.
My guess is since this was a training situation and considering a jr FF was a member of the RIT team, that this was training with explorer/jr FF's and possibly other FF's new to the service and pretty green. It is mentioned the FF who panicked was of another dept, so this could be a combined training of several depts with new and jr FF's. It is my theory that considering there is a jr FF as a RIT member that many probably do not have training in calling a MAYDAY, MAYDAY procedurs, and even RIT responsibilities.
Those trainings I have been involved in, especially with a mix of FF's from different depts is that MAYDAY, emergency operations are clearly explained prior to training. RIT assignments comprised of students was as a training response only. In the event of an actual emergency or MAYDAY, it was instructors who responded.
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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on
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Four years ago my department was at our local training facility, a two story burn building conducting our annual live fire training. We were on our last revolution when one of our firefighters went down and was unconscious. We were on the second floor near the fire room when this occurred, I was placed in the safety officer position and was located near the fire room.
Here comes the weird part. On this last revolution we were going to call a Mayday to evaluate how our RIT team would react and perform when the order to respond to it was given. Just as I was going to call out the Mayday the real deal happened! I immediately called the Mayday with the words this is not a drill, this is real world!
The IC acknowledge the Mayday understanding this is not a drill. I informed him that we would self extricate the firefighter, and have the RIT team meet us at the door! What we didn't know was, the firefighter went down because he had been getting over the flu. He recovered and all was well!
Now I had to answer to the Chief when he asked why didn't I have the RIT team come in for assistance. Other departments might have different protocols, but ,I and the IC that day got a real understanding from the Chief on how ours works!
Now if you've been ill or just not feeling good the day of our annual training, you will have to sit it out, and do a make up at a later date.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda Benton on
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they definately should have called a mayday. if they tried to talk to him and he was unresponsive. in this situation he may have been just fine but it could have been way worse.
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Permalink Reply by Brad MacMillan on
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Hey Jay, I'd like to get a copy of your checklist and see what other things we haven't thought of for ours. Do a comparison. Because there's some things on yours that you have that we never even considered. Drop me an email if you could. Bradmac@ruralfire.ca thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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I agree that the RIT should be notified but if the members in the immediate area can extract the member safely and expeditiously than they should.
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Permalink Reply by Jayne C. Eernisse - Gates on
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It should have been an automatic mayday in my eyes. The line officer should have called a mayday first and foremost so everyone else can clear radio traffic for the incident commander to recieve the info he needs to send the RIT in. The more time is wasted the worse the situation gets, especially if this was a training exercise. If we can't follow through with recognizing the situation on the training ground then how are we going to deal with it when it slaps you right in the face on a real incident?
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they definately should have called a mayday. if they tried to talk to him and he was unresponsive. in this situation he may have been just fine but it could have been way worse
And what if this training was with brand new FF's and jr FF's doing some work with a TIC and have not really received more formal MAYDAY training and procedures, or the instructors didn't do a good enough job explaining emergency procedures.
Basically, when you were very brand new to the fire service....Would you know what to do for a MAYDAY and would you know when to call one?
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