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Unbelievable..
I was surfing the internet tonight and I happened across this article. After reading it, it would appear there is some redirection needed in their county. Quotes like why am I here, why do I need to train, this training is useless, who needs FEMA... Unbelievable. I can understand being fristrated but some of the commmentary is not only NOT professional, it sure isn't a way to gather more support through getting new members. Let me know what you think.
BY KENNETH HEARD
Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
AMAGON - Last month, when a Jackson County dispatcher paged firefighters from five rural volunteer fire departments to battle a large blazing gasoline container in Tupelo, no one showed up.
Not one firefighter, said Dan Ivy, the director of the county's Office of Emergency Services.
Finally, after a second page, a handful of volunteers from Richwood, some 25 miles to the north, responded.
"It was an agricultural fuel tank that time," Ivy said. "It could be a house the next time." In the world of firefighting, where time is a key element, response times are drastically lengthening because of an inability to recruit new, younger volunteers in southern Jackson County. The potential for new blood in the rural fire departments has dwindled because of changes in culture, the workplace, population location and the additional training required to become a volunteer firefighter.
"We're getting too dang old," said Richwood Volunteer Fire Chief Wayne Davis. "We've only got three people who are able to really, physically fight fires. But we can't get anyone else to join." Among the five departments that cover the southern half of Jackson County - Richwood Volunteer Fire Department in Amagon, Eight-Mile in Beedeville, R&I about five miles south of Newport, Erwin just east of Newport and Weldon southeast of Newport - only 15 or 16 volunteers are considered "dependable, " Ivy said, meaning they respond to a vast majority of the fires to which they are paged.
In some parts of the state, fire departments keep a waiting list of volunteers eager to join. Marion's department in Crittenden County has a long list and volunteers sometimes wait for months before joining the department, said Kevin McMasters, president of the Arkansas Fire Fighters Association.
But in rural southern Jackson County, where farming is a source of employment, people aren't as apt to drop their work and immediately run to fires. Also, McMasters said, agricultural communities often suffer because farmers live 20 miles or more away from where they farm.
"I got into it because I wanted to help," said Jennifer Nosler, who joined the Eight-Mile Volunteer Fire Department in early August. "But it's a lot of work staying with it." There's also the danger involved in firefighting, and the continual need for training that keeps potential volunteers away, McMasters said.
Under Arkansas Act 822 of 1991, volunteer are required to take 32 hours of structural firefighting instruction and eight hours of wildfire training. They are also required to take 24 hours additional training yearly. Volunteers oppose the more specified training that doesn't apply to Jackson County, Chief Davis said.
"We shut our combines down and get off our tractors to go to school and learn how to put fires out," Davis said. "We don't need to learn how to defuse a bomb. The Homeland Security stuff they're teaching didn't mean anything to us. They are keeping the thumb on all us rinky-dink fire departments. " As a result of the agriculture fuel tank fire, Ivy met with volunteers twice last month to discuss forming an "automatic aid" agreement between all departments. Under Ivy's proposal, all five southern Jackson County fire departments would be dispatched to every fire within their range.
"The proposal had them all working together on every structure fire," Ivy said.
Fire chiefs, though, refused to merge, saying they would go if "asked," but not if "mandated." "Automatic, mandated aid won't work here," said Tony Johnson, chief of the Eight-Mile Volunteer Fire Department. "That's where we start losing more people. No volunteer needs to be told what to do." Fire officials also expressed concern over fuel expenses in driving some 25 miles to fight fires.
"We've been bit in the butt before," said Richwood volunteer firefighter Tim Snyder. "We'll pay the $3 a gallon for gas and show up somewhere only to hear [firefighters] say, `What are you doing here?' That hurts. We can help them put the fire out, but they want us to turn around. That stings a bit, especially after paying for that gas." Davis said his firefighters won't go to Tupelo to assist in fires. "Forget that. To us, that doesn't make sense. By the time we'd get there, it's burned up anyway.
"If they [a community] need a fire department to come to them, they need to get their own," he said. "We're not here to protect the entire county." Davis' son, Steve Davis, a volunteer with Richwood's department, agreed.
"When I joined 15 years ago, it was to help my community," he said. "We had separate departments and that gave our communities identities. It's the only way this will work. We can't work together as one department.
"I could build a 1,500-gallon truck and take care of my area," he added. "I don't need Act 833. I don't need FEMA. I can take care of my own little world." For now, the five southern Jackson County fire departments will continue covering their own areas and responding to fires outside their districts if asked, Ivy said.
"It's going to get worse," Ivy said of the situation. "If we could have gotten the [five] departments responding at the same time, we can save a house sometime. If not, I see the entire southern end of Jackson County burning up eventually."
BY KENNETH HEARD
Arkansas Democrat-Gazette
AMAGON - Last month, when a Jackson County dispatcher paged firefighters from five rural volunteer fire departments to battle a large blazing gasoline container in Tupelo, no one showed up.
Not one firefighter, said Dan Ivy, the director of the county's Office of Emergency Services.
Finally, after a second page, a handful of volunteers from Richwood, some 25 miles to the north, responded.
"It was an agricultural fuel tank that time," Ivy said. "It could be a house the next time." In the world of firefighting, where time is a key element, response times are drastically lengthening because of an inability to recruit new, younger volunteers in southern Jackson County. The potential for new blood in the rural fire departments has dwindled because of changes in culture, the workplace, population location and the additional training required to become a volunteer firefighter.
"We're getting too dang old," said Richwood Volunteer Fire Chief Wayne Davis. "We've only got three people who are able to really, physically fight fires. But we can't get anyone else to join." Among the five departments that cover the southern half of Jackson County - Richwood Volunteer Fire Department in Amagon, Eight-Mile in Beedeville, R&I about five miles south of Newport, Erwin just east of Newport and Weldon southeast of Newport - only 15 or 16 volunteers are considered "dependable, " Ivy said, meaning they respond to a vast majority of the fires to which they are paged.
In some parts of the state, fire departments keep a waiting list of volunteers eager to join. Marion's department in Crittenden County has a long list and volunteers sometimes wait for months before joining the department, said Kevin McMasters, president of the Arkansas Fire Fighters Association.
But in rural southern Jackson County, where farming is a source of employment, people aren't as apt to drop their work and immediately run to fires. Also, McMasters said, agricultural communities often suffer because farmers live 20 miles or more away from where they farm.
"I got into it because I wanted to help," said Jennifer Nosler, who joined the Eight-Mile Volunteer Fire Department in early August. "But it's a lot of work staying with it." There's also the danger involved in firefighting, and the continual need for training that keeps potential volunteers away, McMasters said.
Under Arkansas Act 822 of 1991, volunteer are required to take 32 hours of structural firefighting instruction and eight hours of wildfire training. They are also required to take 24 hours additional training yearly. Volunteers oppose the more specified training that doesn't apply to Jackson County, Chief Davis said.
"We shut our combines down and get off our tractors to go to school and learn how to put fires out," Davis said. "We don't need to learn how to defuse a bomb. The Homeland Security stuff they're teaching didn't mean anything to us. They are keeping the thumb on all us rinky-dink fire departments. " As a result of the agriculture fuel tank fire, Ivy met with volunteers twice last month to discuss forming an "automatic aid" agreement between all departments. Under Ivy's proposal, all five southern Jackson County fire departments would be dispatched to every fire within their range.
"The proposal had them all working together on every structure fire," Ivy said.
Fire chiefs, though, refused to merge, saying they would go if "asked," but not if "mandated." "Automatic, mandated aid won't work here," said Tony Johnson, chief of the Eight-Mile Volunteer Fire Department. "That's where we start losing more people. No volunteer needs to be told what to do." Fire officials also expressed concern over fuel expenses in driving some 25 miles to fight fires.
"We've been bit in the butt before," said Richwood volunteer firefighter Tim Snyder. "We'll pay the $3 a gallon for gas and show up somewhere only to hear [firefighters] say, `What are you doing here?' That hurts. We can help them put the fire out, but they want us to turn around. That stings a bit, especially after paying for that gas." Davis said his firefighters won't go to Tupelo to assist in fires. "Forget that. To us, that doesn't make sense. By the time we'd get there, it's burned up anyway.
"If they [a community] need a fire department to come to them, they need to get their own," he said. "We're not here to protect the entire county." Davis' son, Steve Davis, a volunteer with Richwood's department, agreed.
"When I joined 15 years ago, it was to help my community," he said. "We had separate departments and that gave our communities identities. It's the only way this will work. We can't work together as one department.
"I could build a 1,500-gallon truck and take care of my area," he added. "I don't need Act 833. I don't need FEMA. I can take care of my own little world." For now, the five southern Jackson County fire departments will continue covering their own areas and responding to fires outside their districts if asked, Ivy said.
"It's going to get worse," Ivy said of the situation. "If we could have gotten the [five] departments responding at the same time, we can save a house sometime. If not, I see the entire southern end of Jackson County burning up eventually."
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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You think they could use some of Tiger's blogs in this town?
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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" As a result of the agriculture fuel tank fire, Ivy met with volunteers twice last month to discuss forming an "automatic aid" agreement between all departments. Under Ivy's proposal, all five southern Jackson County fire departments would be dispatched to every fire within their range.
"The proposal had them all working together on every structure fire," Ivy said.
Fire chiefs, though, refused to merge, saying they would go if "asked," but not if "mandated." "Automatic, mandated aid won't work here," said Tony Johnson, chief of the Eight-Mile Volunteer Fire Department. "That's where we start losing more people. No volunteer needs to be told what to do."
You're kidding me??!!
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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Looks like they have plenty of problems, starting from the top down. I did a little reaearch via Google maps and such, and found that there is a department much closer to Tupelo which may have answered the bell. Augusta FD, southwest of Tupelo in Woodruff county would have been much closer. Augusta shows 21 POC FFs. Or to the south the McCrory VFD shows 22 FFs out of 2 stations.
Back in Jackson county, Newport would have been closer than the Richwood department (which finally repsonded). An internet search shows Newport has an Erwin Volunteer Fire Department, 1 station, 20 volunteers; and a Newport Fire Department which has 20 career FFs in 3 stations.
So:
There is obviously no state mutual aid plan, or if there is the individual FDs refuse to sign up to it. And, Jackson Co. emergency management doesn't know there's a whole other world past the county line
Then there's the firefighter attitudes which are at best embarassing to the rest of us. Makes you want to go there and kick some serious youknowwhat just for the challenge it presents.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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As long as there is the mindset that "they" don't want to be "told" what to do, I see little to remedy this situation on the short term.
Long term? Well, after the demagogues get off of the fire departments, then reasonable people can sit down and hammer out mutual aid agreements. The whole idea of mutual aid is to get and give assistance when an incident goes beyond your capacity to deal with it. It is foolish and dangerous to believe that you can "take care of your own little world". Oh; there will be an outcome, but perhaps not the one you had hoped for.
Here in Illinois, we have a state wide system known as MABAS, which stands for "Mutual Aid Box Alarm System".
When you join a MABAS district, you agree to send resources to other members of the MABAS district. On Feb. 2, our department struck a MABAS box and got the resources that we needed to contain the fire in the building of origin in our downtown area. Without it, it is safe to assume that we would have lost more of the downtown than we did. You commit resources, you commit to training together and you commit to each others' communities in the spirit of what we all signed up for.
The article had me scratching my head, but let's face it; turf wars have been around for centuries. You would think that in today's fire service, the wars would be few and far between.
As far as the federal government stepping in? Wouldn't it be smarter to come up with a LOCAL plan than to have one driven down your throats? Because generally what happens is; if you don't do it on your own, the government WILL MANDATE IT. And that may not always be the best plan.
Community leaders, fire departments and fire department leaders need to get to the table to fix this before something catastrophic happens.
This isn't a game. It's life and death.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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No wonder people have such a poor opinion of Volunteers in some areas. With Good Ol' Boys like these speaking for their department, not many people are going to think highly of it, or any of the department's in the area who “don’t need to be told what to do." Makes me wonder how they fight fires at all if everyone just does what they think is best. When the Officer (if there is one) says to pull a hose line, does THE firefighter pull a ladder instead because "nobody can tell me what to do?"
This is how County-wide forced consolidation under a paid department happens. We had it happen in Columbia County, GA, and we had an active and professional Volunteer department. The Volunteer department was told by the county, "Thanks for your Service, but as of 0001 on 01 January you are out of business." All because the council members had the "Keystone Cop" image of volunteer firefighters in mind when the proposal to consolidate under the paid department was brought up. That image was helped along quite a bit by the paid department in order to increase their contract with the county, though.
With Yahoos like this article describes, I think many more counties will opt for paid county-wide coverage by far-flung, minimally staffed, single-engine stations. The problem I’ve seen with the rural county departments is they tend to staff stations with an Officer and two Firefighters, and they don’t plan for water task forces very well. And of course of the now-bitter former Volunteer firefighters (whom the paid department wouldn’t hire because they had “only been volunteers,” or who wouldn’t apply do to having another job they couldn’t give up) are no longer allowed to even help on a fire – despite still being certified Firefighters.
GM
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Permalink Reply by yves rollin on
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its, like you said, unbelievable,but its almost the same here in Canada.We dont have enough volunteer cause of too much training.But in the same time, we need that training for the work we needed for.Its a question of stay in life or die .
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If anybody even thinking about becoming a volunteer for a fire department has to THINK about whether they have the time to devote to training at a minimum proficiency level, then STAY HOME. Don't bother.
If you cannot give up time to maintain that same minimum level of proficiency on a yearly basis, then get out.
And then ask yourself: other than family, what is eating up all my spare time? Softball? Volleyball? Beers with the buds? Fishing? Golf? Motorcycling? Swimming? TV?
Yeah; all that stuff is "FUN", but how rewarding is it? If you think that winning a softball game and having a positive outcome at a car wreck are the same feeling, then you have rocks in your head. It's one thing to have the game winning hit. But cutting someone from a car, controlling the bleeding, immobilizing the C-spine and assisting with getting them on the helo is NOTHING like you have ever felt before.
There are too many selfish people in the world.
Don't be one of them. Take a look back. Re-prioritize. Find the time. It's more than worth it.
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't think badly of our state we do have some very good departments in it. We even have some of the best firefighters around. don't let 1% ruin the image of the other 99%. My department has some of the most loyal hard working firefighters in the world we go anywhere we are needed do the job and leave . The training is high and we usally have 7 to 10 people in classes each month. It is a shame that the attitude is there and it seems to me that the upper levels of the fire service in that county needs to be looked at or changed. It sound as if they forgot about the people and are thinking only of their selves .
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Damon,
Don't worry, there are "1%ers" everywhere...Hopefully we weed them and drive on.
GM
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Permalink Reply by Wesley King on
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I think that if you can admit to yourself that, "We are getting to dang old", then it is time to get out. What happens if you are the only person available to pull the hose at that time ? Do you say I am too old let's wait until some of these younger guys arrive and let them do it ? I think that as long as you have the training and ability to help someone in need, you should do it because you may be their only hope. If you are too old or not able to perform your job anymore than I think it is time to hang up your hat. Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for the veterans in this profession. They have a lot of wisdom and advice to pass along to the younger generation. You can really learn a lot from them if you just pay attention. But I just think that if you know that you can't do your job anymore, it is time to step back and start thinking about using your knowledge to guide and teach the younger generation how to fill your shoes when you are gone. And another thing I think that may be lacking in some of these departments is desire, dedication, motivation, and HEART ! If you have those four things then you won't be looking at "Why am I taking a class on how to extinguish aircraft fires, or how to defuse a bomb, etc. ?". You will be looking at " If the day ever comes that a crop duster crashes or a commerical aircraft crashes, I am confident that I will know how to deal with the problem." or " If some kid decides to put a bomb in his/her school because he/she is mad at his/her teacher or fellow classmates, then I am confident that I will be able to deal with the problem and help to save some life.". In this day and time, these ideas are not far fetched in little small towns like these. Anything is very possible now a days. If you don't believe me just pick up a newspaper and read some of the articles that go on in your area everyday. Even if you live in a little small town with a population of 400 or so, who is to say that an 18-wheeler doesn't come through there occasionally with something like jet fuel ? What would happen if that truck turned over and your department didn't have any training in dealing with haz-mat ? I don't think you can ever have too much training or even say that a particular incident will or won't ever happen in your community. Maybe it's time that we sit back and think about if our reason for being in the fire service is the same as it was when we first joined.
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I wouldn't penalize your state by any stretch of the imagination. What this appears to be is a total collapse of a Mutual Aid agreement (which is needed for federal grants) a total lack of morale, and a lackluster performance. If these folks no longer have the desire to do the job, they shouldn't be chiefs or officers. (nevermind firefighters) When you stop caring, you don't belong in the business. This call could have been much worse. If this had been a building with occupants entrapped would they have responded? Whould they have Killed themselves in the publics eyes by saying they are tired of it all?
Who would ever want to join a fire department that exudes a lack of trust and caring in the publics eye by giving damning quotes to the press? How are the members of your fire department supposed to look at you for support and guidance when they only want to throw themselves and the department under the bus? I wish I lived in the area, I would sure love a project like that. To be able to start at the basics and build working relationships with the community to show them we could be trusted. When the public trusts you and your there for them, they want to be there for you. Membership would increase, training would be conducted and attended and the morale would be high. Think of the future for these firefighters and citizens of this town if they only had the right people.
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