The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
What Gives with Police ESU while Performing Vehicle Extrication?
I come from the far western part of NY state, I am the dept training officer and have held many other ranks for the Gowanda FD. I see quite often that the Police ESU units in Eastern NY that preform vehicle extrications don't wear any or very little protective clothing "PPE".... a story is on the NY state news at another site right now that shows a Police ESU member running Hurst tool with nothing on but his uniform and his gun... what kind of deal is that??We in the fire service have to wear either full trunout gear or at very least jump suits, helmets, gloves, etc. Whats the story here, do the cops just make up any rules they want? Who is in charge at an accident scene for extrication work? I know around here, if a police officer wants to do extrication they better join the FD. I can't beleve these guys wear no proper PPE while operating hyd tools, etc. Can someone explain what appears to be a double standard to me ?? We have to wear heavy PPE and the Police nothing?? Someone better wake up. To me thats just plain outrageous. Beleve me, on a hot day I would love to run a hyd tool in my street cloths... but someone makes rules that say we can't do that.... but its ok for the Police ESU units??
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Paul Dudan on
-
Can you explain "ESU"? I'm from NorthWest Jersey and either the Fire or EMS/Rescue companies perform the extrication.
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
"Because they can" is probably the real explanation. Wearing no PPE while performing extrications is not, repeat not OK, but until one of the ESU guys gets seriously injured, or gets cut and then gets an incurable bloodborne disease from a patient, it's likely that nothing will change where ESU does the cut jobs.
Realistically, lightweight extrication PPE is probably the best choice for extrication teams - a compromise between structural firefighting PPE and uniforms, but a good compromise.
In South Carolina, OSHA requires certain PPE requirements when working rescues, regardless of the agency, so we don't have that problem here. We do have some EMS agencies that don't require their people to wear even an extrication coat, but most of the EMS agencies are getting smart and protecting their personnel from MVC hazards.
-
Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
-
In some jurisdictions the responsibility for heavy rescue is borne by the police department. In the WNY town I grew up in this was the case for many years until the FDs began getting their own tool sets and becoming proficient in vehicle extrication.
Back in the day the fire department wasn't called unless there was a fire. Traffic accidents, extrication from vehicles and first aid was provided by the police and ambulance folks. In some cases the ambulance was a hearse with a stretcher in the back instead of a casket.
Today the hearses are now ambulances of course, but in some areas the PDs still do tool work.
-
Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
-
I get what your saing abo ppe but police esu you lost me there
-
Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
-
Emergeny Services units are slowly becoming the "do all" service I firmly believe its all part of the paid programs where the EMS are at times a division of the Police Dept. and run by them..as in case where my spouse works, she and the ems answer to the police directly..I have also seen articles and hear talk in some places (smaller areas now) where the police are looking at a fire division sounds nuts i know but the reasoning behind this all is mass personal mean bigger insurance breaks and if all are under 1 managing unit then the insurance companies say they are closer watched and higher standards..LOL..Anyway as far as ESU goes..they are considered the marines of the Police Dept. All specilaty units like special forces..trust me when i say the first time one of these guys slashes open a thigh on a hurst tool and bleeds out they will either gear up or stop sadly it takes 1 lawsuit to make govt wake up
-
Permalink Reply by Tim Twichell on
-
Police ESU stands for "Emergency Services Unit" most famous are the NYPD ESU units. They run to special operations from SWAT type action to high angle rescues, accident extrication etc. They are equipped with heavy rescue trucks and other response vehicles just like a FD. Now other towns, counties, etc run ESU type teams. They are not new, I know that, but I still don't know why SOME cops don't have to use the same strict safety procedures and wear the same protective equipment that Firefighters do for doing the exact same job. My bet is that 90% or more of vehicle extrications are carried out by the fires service in this country, but along comes an ESU unit, and all these procedures go right out the window. How do you teach safety at the same time that SOME police disregard it. Someone should wake up. Sooner or later they will learn the hard way... and cost the taxpayers a bundle doing it.
-
-
If one of them doesn't get seriously hurt, the other possibilityis that if they don't follow industry best practices for extrication that sooner or later they'll injure a patient, or worse. The legal system will take over at that point.
-
Permalink Reply by Ken Sehres on
-
Does anyone have the clip from the COPS TV show where the NYPD does an extrication on a car that rolled and hit a building? I saw it on TV last night and was blown away at their lack of organization, safety, procedure, command, etc. How the heck does one of the biggest and oldest police agencies in the country operate so far out from today's standard of practice and care?
-
Permalink Reply by Norm Tindell on
-
Sounds to me like this their problem, not yours. Firefighters wear PPE for protection. Police wear guns for protection. If I were a worker's compensation agent reviewing a police officer's claim that he was injured while performing extrication without PPE I would laugh and stamp the claim "DENIED."
-
Permalink Reply by Russ on
-
"when a civilian needs help they call the police, when the police need help they call Emergency services" The NYPD has operated the esu since the 1920's (i think) they respond to law enforcement related situations and act as SWAT also. they are also a jack of all trades in new york city. they have the capability to perform tasks that would be normally be performed by the Fire dept when the situation is more of a law enforcement problem with the exception of fire extingushment. there has been a rivelary between ESU and FDNY rescue. "E-Men" refer to fdny rescue as the Red Menace. neither are better than the other, but each has their tasks. i like them both. (this post is dedicated memory of PO Thomas Langone of the NYPD ESU, a good friend and a brother volunteer firefighter on long island who was murdered on 9-11) (rest in peace Tommy god bless you, russ)
-
Permalink Reply by WARD on
-
Being on both sides, a volunteer firefighter and just ending my 37th year as a police officer, I can see both sides. First off, It's NYPD. They do their own thing. Maybe not always the best, but it is what they have been doing for years. It's how they were trained. Also most of NYPD ESU never gets to see a real FD Rescue Unit in action, the equipment, gear, and how FD does rescues.
However, if I was ESU, having the firefighting background, I would have minimum turnout gear even if the PD didn't supply it. Helmet with shield, gloves and hopefully some type of jacket. Only because I have firefighting background, working with FD and Rescue Units as a PD here.
Sort of the same as I am also a Crisis/Hostage Negotiator. Although most of the time we do not do face to face negotiations, and can be up to 3 miles away on the phone, we still have the same gear as the tactical guys available. That way anytime we are within the hot zone, we can gear up for safety.
I think it all comes back to how you were trained and what your department requires. Like someone else said, until someone gets seriously hurt or dies, and NYPD gets hit with a big law suit due to lack of training and protective gear, things won't change.
-
Permalink Reply by Phil on
-
Paul,
ESU is the Emergency Services Unit and NYPD is the main police department that utilizes an ESU, and many surrounding jurisdictions in both NY and North Jersey have similar units. They are jacks of all trades and handle extrications and all manner of technical rescue as well as SWAT functions. Take care and be safe.
Phil Clinard
Laurel VFD
Prince George's County Co 10
Laurel, MD
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
