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Freedom Group Protests Cross at Charleston Firehouse
JEFFREY COLLINS
Associated Press Writer
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A group that supports the separation of religion and state wants a cross removed from in front of a Charleston fire station that city officials say honors nine firefighters killed battling a furniture store blaze.
The fight over the cross extends from a battle the Freedom from Religion Foundation had with the city last December when the group complained about a nativity scene in front of the same fire station. Officials added secular decorations, including snowmen, to comply with the law.
Most of the decorations came down by the new year, but the cross stayed up, the city saying it was now a memorial to the firefighters killed in June 2007, said Rebecca Markert, a lawyer for the foundation.
The foundation didn't buy the explanation, sending a letter last week to the city threatening to sue if the cross is not removed because it violates the U.S. Constitution by endorsing a specific religion. The group also said for the past five years the same cross had been removed at the same time as the Christmas items.
"We believe it is a sham to say it is now part of a permanent memorial when before it was being put up and taken down in December as part of Christmas," Markert said Tuesday.
The cross rests near a stone memorial with the names of the nine Charleston firefighters killed as they fought a blaze at the Sofa Super Store.
Lawyers for the city told officials it was a legal display because it is a secular emblem of death.
"The message communicated by the cross is clearly one of honoring fallen firefighters and not of furthering a religious purpose," lawyers for the city said in a news release.
The letter from the foundation gave the city a May 14 deadline to take down the cross.
Related
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Associated Press Writer
COLUMBIA, S.C. - A group that supports the separation of religion and state wants a cross removed from in front of a Charleston fire station that city officials say honors nine firefighters killed battling a furniture store blaze.
The fight over the cross extends from a battle the Freedom from Religion Foundation had with the city last December when the group complained about a nativity scene in front of the same fire station. Officials added secular decorations, including snowmen, to comply with the law.
Most of the decorations came down by the new year, but the cross stayed up, the city saying it was now a memorial to the firefighters killed in June 2007, said Rebecca Markert, a lawyer for the foundation.
The foundation didn't buy the explanation, sending a letter last week to the city threatening to sue if the cross is not removed because it violates the U.S. Constitution by endorsing a specific religion. The group also said for the past five years the same cross had been removed at the same time as the Christmas items.
"We believe it is a sham to say it is now part of a permanent memorial when before it was being put up and taken down in December as part of Christmas," Markert said Tuesday.
The cross rests near a stone memorial with the names of the nine Charleston firefighters killed as they fought a blaze at the Sofa Super Store.
Lawyers for the city told officials it was a legal display because it is a secular emblem of death.
"The message communicated by the cross is clearly one of honoring fallen firefighters and not of furthering a religious purpose," lawyers for the city said in a news release.
The letter from the foundation gave the city a May 14 deadline to take down the cross.
Related
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gregory Borg on
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No, I want you to keep your religion out of my firehouse. It is you choice and your business not mine, keep it home or church.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Bryan,
My example of racism was in direct response to "majority rules!" Within that framework anything can be accomplished, without regard to equality or civil rights. You probably have to stop and think about that, conceptually.
As for the crosses at Arlington NationalCemetaryCemetery, so far as I understand it, Arlington displays identical headstones, with the particular religious symbol engraved ON the stone (http://www.arlingtoncemetery.org/funeral_information/authorized_emb...).
While I'm not sure whether or not there are actual crosses marking graves in Arlington, if there were they would NOT be removed as the government does allow for the individual expression of religious choice in the cemetery.
http://www.moaablogs.org/battleofthebilge/2009/07/aclu_military_hea...
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/02/chai...
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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Its the "cleanist" one I could muster on short notice...if you like that one you should see the one I wanted to print.....LOL...it would have sent me straight to hell.......and you know what.....? We would have put out that fire as well.........
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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With the Supreme Court giving its approval Wednesday (04-28-10) to displaying a cross on public land to honor fallen soldiers, saying the Constitution "does not require the eradication of all religious symbols in the public realm", maybe this discussion will become moot?
Speaking for a divided court, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy said the 1st Amendment called for a middle-ground "policy of accommodation" toward religious displays on public land, not a strict separation of church and state. Folks demanding the removal of religious symbols to me are no worse than the guy trying to ram religion down your throat. It's just extremes at both ends...
With that being the case now, hopefully folks who have a thread of decency and understanding will leave the Charleston firefighters alone and be allowed the chance to heal. What I find outrageous is the fact that firefighters posing here on the FFN would not be more sympathetic toward the needs of the affected firefighters in Charleston.
You have to figure that folks from the Charleston Fire Department are reading these posts and shaking their heads, asking, "where's the brotherhood". Mean spirited people suck and have no business being in this business...
It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice...
CBz
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All depends on the available staffing, unless you're suggesting that most firefighters go to hell?
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Permalink Reply by bryan lamb on
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what I get tired of is the atheists jaming there belifes down my throat my cross dont hurt you its just a simble to them anyways what is it hurting if they dont belive fine go about your buisness and leave those of us that do alone!!!!!!!!!
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Not at all Jack...but many would VOLUNTEER to go and put it out.....LOL.......
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bryan,
The same could be said of those that insist on their right to display or promote their (not there) religious beliefs (not belifes) on non-believers. It's about fairness and compassion. Neither of which seem (to me) to be a strong suit of many devote christians (or other religions, for that matter.)
I'm always dismayed that people ONLY see their own, narrow viewpoint. Personally I'm not necessarily against the display of religious items (on public property) so long as it allows for the inclusion of other beliefs. Mostly the knee jerk reaction of people like the Freedom From Religion Foundation are nothing more than counterpoint to the diametrically opposite group(s) insisting that their particular religious beliefs be prominent, significant and exclusive.
I'm equally dismayed at the vehement reaction of people when their religious displays are called into question. It seems to consistently (or mostly so) defy the very precepts they claim to uphold. As I pointed out earlier, there is a group that is easily the extreme opposite of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, and that is the Westboro Baptist Church. Both are extreme viewpoints and neither speak for the majority. Yet when one presumes that all "atheists" are out to impinge on your rights, I am left only think the same of the Westboro Baptist Church "god hates fags" group that wants to impose their OWN particular and narrow point of view.
As CBz pointed out above and I posted separately earlier, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of allowing religious symbols on public property.
I haven't in any way argued against what the Charlestown fire department has chosen to display with regard to the 9 LODD, only commented on some of the rather narrow and exclusive opinions made on the subject (mine could equally be construed by some as such).
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Permalink Reply by Eric Dixon on
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Am I missing something? Black, White, Brown and Asian Brothers and sisters die in the line of duty, there is no distinction. Those crosses in front of the station represent good not evil and I'm sure if the families of the fallen wanted them removed it would've happened so please don't inject your racial B.S. into this. All races have been persecuted throughout world history. No one race has a corner on the market!
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Having a cross on the lawn at a fire station has nothing to do with brotherhood. It is about religion, not my religion some other persons. My local sent firefighters to the service in Charleston, 3000 miles in a show of brotherhood. We have been to Pittsburgh, Worcester, New York, Seattle, LA, Sacramento, Houston and many others in a show of brotherhood and to support our brothers and their families. Someone's religion has nothing to do with brotherhood. I don't care what religion they practice, I just don't want it practiced on public property. That is what their place of worship is for.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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In my own humble opinion, as a Muslim I have no problem with the Cross in the front yard of the Firehouse. Either as a memorial to the 9 members killed on that tragic day or as a symbol of the religion of those members still active at that house.
It is not offensive to me, a non Chirstian in any way at all. If these members choose to use this cross as a representation of their faith, so be it. No one is doing anything that is verbally or physically abusive to the community, so let them be. As long as their dediction to their faith does not interfere with their treatment of the community or their conduct, let them be.
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The cross represents good to you but not to everyone. It is the oppressor to many.
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