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If this post is already in firefighter nation please share the title so I can take a look. I was not able to find anything while searching past forums.
This has kind of bugging me for awhile. Now I dont know if this is just a east coast thing from New Hamshire to Virginia or if it happens all over the country (never traveled much). But I drive through these downs everynow and then and all of a sudden I have a fire truck or an ambulance coming up behind me quick, lights shining but no siren. Companies coming up to intersections maybe 15 feet before them then they turn on a siren. Shouldnt it be if your lights are on and your going to a call you should have the siren going whether its 1 oclock in the afternoon or 3 in the morning. I mean because if firefighters get in an accident or someone doesnt pull over for them in the day time they complain that the person couldnt see or hear the fire truck coming. But at night what happens? These fire trucks going all out to calls late at night with just lights going through intersections and past cross streets without any sound at all.
Just want to find out what other peoples thoughts on this are.
Should we listen to towns people when they complain that our lights and sirens woke them up at 3 am and the chief decides that we cant run with our lights going or does your department just say screw it and turn it all on for your safety and everyone elses on the road?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Thomas Sabourn on
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sometimes common sence lacks, if in traffic use the siren! i know some small departments where there are guys who hate the siren, and if your driving and turn it on, they give you a hard time. GIVE ME A BREAK, if there is traffic.... run it. if you get into a crash without it on......hello lawsuit! however that same small department has a couple guys who need to run it 24 hrs a day, for a cat up the tree call at 2:00am. "if were awake ....there awake". so, like i said.... there is no replacement or law that works any better than common sence and the ability to look at a call, the severity of the call, and use your own wisdom to dictate proper responce procedures. i think it all depends on the area and SOPS. a little common sence goes a long way!
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Permalink Reply by Emmet on
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If the law in your state says that you must sound the siren when using the emergency lights, ask your State legislator to update the law to permit only the "reasonable use", as in Texas and other states.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Meadows on
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Something we are all forgetting, espically on the 3am responses. If we are driving even 5 mph faster that the posted speed limit or on a call that may possibly be considered by a jury to be a code 3 call and someone pulls out in front of us from a driveway, or a hidden intersection, or even weaves into us from the other lane, that person or persons could sue us for everything we own. And if the person dies we could go to jail and still lose everything we own. So if I feel it is something that a jury will conclude would be an emergency call I will run both I don't care who gets pissed off about it. POV's respond within speed limits either to the scene or to get a truck unless they are set up with lights, siren, and unit number and fire dept name on the front and back of the POV and then only after approval of the Chief, Asst. Chief, and Batt. Chiefs. The way people love to sue everyone nowdays, I wouldn't dare put lights or anything else on my POV I'd just run the speed limit and follow all traffic laws to the station or the scene and I would obey all laws for fire truck responses.
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Chris,
Your statement is incorrect. The California Vehicle Code does NOT require the siren to be on when the lights are on. Where did you get that information?
At night, the lights tell other drivers that you are on your way to a Code 3 emergency so that they should yield to you. Otherwise, you are just another vehicle on the road.
Ask your Chief to clarify the law for you. Probably other firefighters in your department have the same misinformation.
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If someone pulls out in front of you from a driveway or weaves into you, they should receive a ticket for failing to yield the right of way. When did a firefighter ever get sent to jail because he killed a driver who was at fault?
Your statement that you "don't care about who gets pissed off about it" sounds as if you don't care about the people you are being paid to serve. It gives firefighters a bad name.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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I think this is why there may be some mis-information:
21806. Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle which is sounding a siren and which has at least one lighted lamp exhibiting red light that is visible, under normal atmospheric conditions, from a distance of 1,000 feet to the front of the vehicle, the surrounding traffic shall, except as otherwise directed by a traffic officer, do the following..
I read this that no siren + no lights= I don't have to pull over. Not that I wouldn't. My city's station is next to 2 schools and a resdidential area. If they go east, they wait until the intersection to start the siren. But they are running lights all that time.
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Permalink Reply by Davin Eshelman on
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New York (Or at least my dept.) if you respond to ANY call with lights you HAVE to respond with sirens as well.
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New York law does not require the siren when the lights are on. The siren is to be used only "as may be reasonably necessary". Here is the text of New York law 1104(c):
1104(c) Except for an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle,
the exemptions herein granted to
an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when
audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle while
in motion by bell, horn siren, electronic device or exhaust whistle
as may be reasonably necessary, and when
the vehicle is equipped with at least one lighted lamp so that from any direction,
under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet from such vehicle,
at least one red light will be displayed and visible.
In the future, please give your citation when you make a statement of fact.
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Chris,
In California, according to the California Vehicle Code Section 21055(5), the driver of an emergency vehicle is permitted to sound a siren on the way to an emergency only "as may be reasonably necessary". As other firefighters have pointed out, sounding a siren at 3 A.M. in a residential neighborhood when there is no traffic and the light is green is neither "reasonable" nor "necessary".
Here is the exact wording of 21055(b) from the CVC:
21055 (b) If the driver of the vehicle sounds a siren as may be
reasonably necessary and the vehicle displays a lighted red lamp
visible from the front as a warning to other drivers and pedestrians.
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Yes, if there is no siren and no lights, you don't have to pull over. What would you do if there were lights but no siren?
(Hint: Consider the predicament of deaf drivers who can see the lights but cannot tell if there's a siren.)
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Permalink Reply by Joe Brewer on
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In the state of Tennessee when you run “emergency traffic” and you use your lights. Have to activate your siren. In the state of Tennessee THIS IS THE LAW. There was a law but into place called the Vanessa Kay law. Basically a girl was killed by a cop because he blew an intersection with only his lights on and hit the car killing Vanessa Kay. If you ask “do you run sirens at 2 am” Yes I do if I am out on main roads or town. Now in small communities I don’t in my POV. In my POV I still use lights and sirens when there is a possible life threatening incident.
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I do care about the people I serve that's why I serve. And maybe I should have phrased it differently. But the simple fact is if you do what the law says, most of the time you are covered should something happen. So I will follow the law and simply tell anyone who complains to contact the state legislature and get the law changed. I don't argue with anyone in the general public I just tell them what I can and go on. I don't exactly agree with the law but it is the law and I like to follow it. And it's better safe than sorrry.
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