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Junior FFN
Hello and welcome to what appears to be becoming the "Junior" FFN webpage!
Since my return I have noticed that there seems to be a plethora of postings that seem to have "junior", explorer, cadet or some other term of minority in them. Although I appreciate that everyone gets their start somewhere, and I have learned that obviously a great number of fire departments represented here on these hallowed pages use "juniors" to supplement their 'seniors'? , I can not believe how many postings there suddenly are with JUNIORS involved and to be quite frank the number of juniors that seem to have "tude" about it...
Whats the next posting.....Barney teaches ropes and knots...Dora Explorer holding a class on fire control, and today we will be using real water kids...Tonight after hours, (7:00 p.m.) we will gather upstairs for a showing of high school musical/the firefighter years...Should juniors be allowed to "skate" or scooter to the call?
I mean cmon here.....First off if your not 18.....You aint a firefighter. Junior, explorer, cadet whatever....not FIREFIGHTER...like I told one young man in here on his post..I appreciate your interest and wish you well...but when you put "junior" in front of anything...it is still JUNIOR!!!!!
Since my return I have noticed that there seems to be a plethora of postings that seem to have "junior", explorer, cadet or some other term of minority in them. Although I appreciate that everyone gets their start somewhere, and I have learned that obviously a great number of fire departments represented here on these hallowed pages use "juniors" to supplement their 'seniors'? , I can not believe how many postings there suddenly are with JUNIORS involved and to be quite frank the number of juniors that seem to have "tude" about it...
Whats the next posting.....Barney teaches ropes and knots...Dora Explorer holding a class on fire control, and today we will be using real water kids...Tonight after hours, (7:00 p.m.) we will gather upstairs for a showing of high school musical/the firefighter years...Should juniors be allowed to "skate" or scooter to the call?
I mean cmon here.....First off if your not 18.....You aint a firefighter. Junior, explorer, cadet whatever....not FIREFIGHTER...like I told one young man in here on his post..I appreciate your interest and wish you well...but when you put "junior" in front of anything...it is still JUNIOR!!!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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Then when does a Child become and Adult? where is that fine line that seperates too young from Fire Fighter? Is it 18? or is it when the young adukt decides he wants to become somthing and does somthing about it.
So when can someone vote? Is it 18? 18 is what is recognized as the age in which someone becomes an adult, albeit not always mature, but it is the legal age recognized.
The issue boils down to what is allowed and really what shouldn't be allowed. The purpose of these programs is not to train some HS kid to become a FF. These programs were established to give a kid a chance to see the FF occupation first hand to determine if this is a job they may want to pursue. Now many kids involved are eager and willing and can't wait to become a FF and there in lies the problem. Too often these kids are put in hazardous conditions when they shouldn't be, they should not be in an IDLH environment, should not be on a handline, should not operate equipment, should not climb aerials, etc......Problem is we keep seeing kids coming on here and saying they do all this stuff and how they should be treated the same as a FF with 20 years on the job. The other argument goes to "where else can they learn the job then" which goes directly to the point that many...over the magic age of 18...have gone on to become successful FF's.
That has basically become the issue as to the problem with juniors here. Such programs are great, I started as an Explorer and continue as an advisor, but the difference is that many on here think they are entitled to do so much more on a fireground. When the danger issue is pointed out, it is just brushed nonchanlantly off, despite issues out there regarding child labor, legal age to work, etc. The other aspect regards to advice given by jr FF's, especially when it is wrong....as noted in the keeping apparatus from freezing thread...a jr (who also replied to this post) gave some wrong advice and was called on it. Instead of reckonizing the error and learning from it, seen it as a personal attack. Then another jr...who also responded on this thread...tried to just back the other one up without (seemily) any regard to the information posted. To many of us here that doesn't show learning etc, but entitlement. The thing with this site is to inform and learn, this is a great resource, but reality is, concerning kids, is they are NOT firefighters yet and should not be utilized as one.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Workman on
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I completely agree with you John, at my dept we have a Jr FF program, however they DO NOT go on any type of call, it doesn't matter what it is. They do report to the station when we get paged for a call, but their job upon arrival is to man the radio at the station. We will allow them to come to all meetings, training, and work days, but they NEVER go on a live call. Now this has recently been changed, when I first got on the department 6 months ago they could go on live calls, that was until our cheif was informed by the city and our insurance company about the laws we were in violation of, all of which have been mentioned here numerous times, not to mention the cival liabilties that the city, him and any other officer on scene would be responsible for if they got hurt.
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Permalink Reply by Matthew Voges on
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Let me start out by saying that there will be some words missed spelled. I have no problem with explorers at all, they git to see if they really want to go into the fire sirvice. As far as explorers fighting fire, that is a NO-GO. They have no reason to be in that tipe of invirment. I myself started out as an explorer, with my parents consent. Keep in mind my father has been fighting fire for over 28 years. So by the time I jouned as an explorer my dad had tought me what I need to know about the job. But still I wasnt alowed to fight fire untill I was 18 years old.
The department that I am on now is the same way, all the explorers that we have are not asighned to a ST. but to support services. They are not on a first out truck. On a fire all they do is hump hose, help on the pumps, and help with water supply. That is all they do on a fire. The only time they use a hose line is in training and when the are a month from turning 18 we will have them help with over haul. As fars as the helment they wear a yellow one, the Firefighters wear black. I am not going to beat this hores any more then it already has, and you can see where I sand on it.
Matthew Voges
PCFR
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Permalink Reply by Brian Mackie on
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Matthew, Thanks for warning us that you were going to use " missed spelled " words. It appears you should have stayed in school! You will require the benefits of staying in school (to learn grammar, spelling, etc etc)far more often in life than those you learn in the fire service. True, it's not as thrilling, but the rewards would /could have been many. The many comments about helping out at fires.. such as "most of the time the juniors direct traffic" which is at best, scary and dangerous in itself, or "they even let me HELP cut the wires to open the hood. they dont allow us to do anything on our own just help" concerns me. Vehicle fires are some of the most dangerous jobs we go to, and since you were allowed to help out on a vehicle fire, you must have been wearing SCBA right? You must have a very progessive department, if they have enough equipment, including SCBA, to outfit their juniors, cadets, or whatever they are called. I am sure you are already well aware of of the many products of combustion at vehicle fires then..such as cyanide gas, and what happens when some refrigerants burn..what is that gas called again.. the one that turns to hydrochloric acid when it comes into contact with wet lungs...oh.. phosgene gas.. is that it? Oh, and about juniors riding on apparatus... does that mean that they replace the senior guys on the rig? I mean, how many seats are on a rig? If the rig is fully staffed (by firefighters) where are the juniors sitting and belted in? Do they ride on the firefighters' laps? Using seatbelts is mandatory in most depts. that I know of, and so if kids are allowed to ride to calls on them, someone is not safe, OR they are rolling out without enough firefighters on board. Just my observation. Tamara, while you took a beating by some of the comments here, I will say.. your spelling and grammar are better than most. Good for you! Matthew, pay attention to Tamara and the way she expresses her thoughts. :)
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Permalink Reply by Roy Walker on
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I have scars from a "safe " Dumpster fire. I was wearing full PPE.SCBA. and was a fully trained f/f at the time. The dumpster didn't care. I'm alive probably because I followed our SOGs . Nothing is ever as it seems and there are enough hazards in everyday life faced by our young without us enhancing those experiences on the fire ground .
The difference between training and actual fire fighting are infinitesimal . Mostly lets consider the pressure of a real event,knowing your speed and ability to perform correctly will influence the safe and quick mitigation ,will cause errors until you gain that experience and are old enough to realise that. Does your department have enough resources to handle one on one supervision or do you believe "safe " evolutions like water supply are o k ,have you ever watched a hose coupling improperly connected fail ? HAVE you ever heard of a distracted fire fighter killed when they were hit by a tanker rushing to dump the water supply ?
Enuogh said keep the jrs in the firehouse and no disrespect to the jrs but learn what you can and practice what you learn, the time for application will come soon enough. Then be ready to step up , and be counted , O K ?
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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If you have a computer then it's a given that you have a word processing program like Microsoft Word. Please consider using this tool to compose your thoughts. Use both spell and grammar checks to teach yourself. You have the tools at your disposal to help you out. You can contact me anytime and I would be more than happy to help you out. Your thoughts were solid and you certainly can express yourself, it's just that we want you to look good in the real world.
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Thank you John for researching and posting this link to validate my point. I'm sure it helped Chris understand where I am coming from.
CBz
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I forgot to mention the biggest secret for looking like you are a nobel prize laureate here on the FFN when you post things... buy a Mac. Having switched back and forth between a Mac and PC, the key difference is that the Mac will underline misspelled words. You just double click the underlined word and choose the correct spelling, which for the most part is very obvious. To be honest, that's how I taught myself how to spell and put together sentence structure years ago. That's why I suggested you do the same.
CBz
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Or...you could use firefox, which offers the exact same function. And waaaaaaaay cheaper than a mac.
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Or...you could just retain the lessons taught in school regarding the proper use of the English language. :-)
(damn nuns) :-)
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Oh sure...bring up the "school" thing. I suppose you're a proponent of home work and spelling drills too.
(damn nuns...too)
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Absolutely, I love homework and spelling drills....weird how the teachers were right when they said you will use this stuff in the future. Now the math teachers on the other hand....whole other story.
:-)
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