The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Why the disrespect of the youger guys?
I have been noticing latley in my FD and other forums in the world of firefighting that alot of people dislike young succesful guys.
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
For example a recently promoted Lt. told me that he wanted to get promoted so he wouldn' have to work for a young punk with a college degree. WOW I thought I think that was directed @ me.
Now I respect the elder generation fo the fire service my dad is that genertation 30 years in various dept. (industrial, structural, career, and vollie). I realize that the elder generation is what made it possible for me to do this job that I love.
But I don't think the elder generation realizes that:
1. The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve.
2. They built the FD but we are the future and if they don't help us along in our infancy then what they built will surely fall.
I am a young gung ho guy who trains all the time (just ask my wife) and the older guys seem to resent me for it. When I put in for leave they give me crap about taking another class. Thankfully not all of them in the dept. are like this. Some really reached out to me and we have taught each other alot.
So I just wanna know what you guys think. Do you have this problem? or Are you this problem?
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
-
One of the replies to this post said, "Respect is earned not given."
Now I gotta be honest here- this p**ses me off!
I will treat you, the way I would expect to be treated.
Nothing more, nothing less.
You give me attitude, I'm gonna give you attitude- vice versa, you respect me and my years and willingly learn, I'll respect you. It's as simple as that, straight off the bat from day 1 on the job.
-
Permalink Reply by LT. Nosedive on
-
Ok, there is alot to be said...
I have been in the fire service for 15 years on and off. I am a female single mother of 4 children, that just recently got promoted to Lt. I have worked tirelessly to promote myself, to be who I knew who I was destined to be. It has taken me FOREVER to get to my rank. I am now a FF/ FLSE and love teaching our community about fire & life safety. I am also an instructor for the young and old alike at the fire/ rescue college.
That being said....
I love the "young punks". (Figuratively speaking) They are now the life blood to us "Old Dogs". We can learn MUCH from thier ideas and education. Things are CONSTANTLY evolving in the fire service....what the old dogs learned five years ago, is NOT the same standard today.
I would hope the last question the writer posed would never be thought of about me. "Am I the problem?" That rings really clear, and I had to evaluate this question. I HOPE I am not the problem.
The thing is folks, we are all brothers (sisters) in arms. We are here to protect one anothers lives, to make sure we go home safe. That is our creed.
The emotional old guys (gals) that have the need to be nasty, need to RETIRE or learn from thier peers (no matter their age). This is not a flippin pissing contest. We have three duties, to protect life, property, and our brothers. THAT IS IT. IF the young guys have better ideas, try them, what does it honestly hurt??
-
Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
-
Some of you talk about the "old dogs" like they have quit learning anything.
Has it not occurred to you that they are OLD DOGS because they have learned and continue to learn?
I am 55, been involved for 27 years and I continue to learn about the changing tactics and technology.
And there are many like me.
We don't shut our brains down when we reach a certain age or rank for that matter.
I have learned for instructors younger than me. I give respect to those young and old who deserve it.
I have no problem with the younger set other than the fact that many of them want it right now.
They lack patience. They are easily offended. They tend to hurry.
Other than that, no problem.
TCSS.
Art
-
-
Were you reffering to me Art? When you say I was talking about "Old Dogs" adversely? Just a side note here, I included myself in the OLD DOGS catagory. Although I may be a young buck to you ;) I have found.....not speaking of all old dogs....that most often time they think they have learned all that they can learn. That was not to say ALL. I have taught classes where the resounding phrase that is often heard....."that isn't the way we USED to do it" OR " I am not changing what I have done for X amount of years just because NFPA decided to throw a wrench in there." IF you are an instructor I am sure you have dealt with the same close mindedness that I have encountered. Yes, you are very correct, we (old dogs)learn our new tricks everyday. That is why they call us dogs. We do learn! However, there are the dogs that REFUSE to learn new tricks. Art, what in essence I am saying here is that you are one of the rare gems that most instructors or these young bucks do not have the pleasure of being taught by.
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Dettman on
-
I myself am an older young guy. Ive been doing this for 19 yrs but only with my current dept. for 9. I came on the job with a drive and need for training that the old gaurd did not want. I completed my FO I and II in 1 year and the chief gave me FF of the year for it. The old gaurd has had all the same chances that I have had and yet I am the guy they poke fun at. The way I figure is that the training you recieve today may save the old gaurds life tommorow. Iam a second generation FF and saw how they did it back in the day and the advances made in the modern fire service are outstanding. Do what you need to do to be an effective leader for you and your men. The old gaurd may not respect you but the young guys will. Go to work and prove yourself everyday. Some of the new guys we have on the job do not apply themselves the way they should. When mistakes are made the finger is pointed at everyone but themselves. If you are fair, make good judgment desicions on the job and respect and treat all the guys you would like to be treated, the old gaurd will or may come around. Keep up the training and stay safe.
-
Permalink Reply by William Williams on
-
This is probably one of the most interesting discussions I have come across on here. I can feel the animosity and love all at the same time. I agree that we, as "youngsters", are treated bad at times but most is because of our own actions or words.
Some one on here posted, "Knowledge is feared" and another posted "knowledge is power". Indeed it is. People fear what they do not know or understand. If you can't get along with your co-workers and allow them to fully understand you, then your situation will never get any better. Always remain professional, give the respect and it shall be returned, realize that you don't know everything or as much as you think you know, listen up and take in all that is good around you while blocking out the bad, and have great integrity. One day you will be the "older" guy and see yourself in a "youngster" and more than likely laugh. It will happen, I guarantee it!
We are the "WHY" generation. We always want to know why something is being done or why it is being done a certain way instead of just doing it. These older guys got to where they are by experience. Granted, not everyone was meant to be a leader. You may have some older guys there that may lack formal education but are great firefighters or leaders and know for the most part what they are doing. Just because you may have a degree does not make you smarter in all things.
I think for the most part that all of us regardless of age want to learn and better ourselves. We might just not show it in the same way or fashion. Remember, every one is different. What you feel is important, others may not feel the same way. The way that you approach and communicate....aka (attitude) is key in getting the response that you are looking for. You pave your own road to success. You also reap what you sow. Think before you speak. Maybe what you are saying or asking can be taken as disrespect.
Until next time.
William R. Williams
-
-
Naw, LT; I was speaking in general.
Young vs. Old has been around for some time.
I was never a "good ole boy". I led the way to get them off of our fire department.
I would find it hard to participate intelligently in discussions here or elsewhere if I didn't keep up with the ever changing dynamics of our fire service.
Jake and Vinnie would suffer as well.
And so you know my style; if I have something to say, I will say it directly, call you by username so that there is no question.
I found nothing unusual or inflammatory about your post.
I realize that there are old guys out there that can't do it anymore.
TCSS.
Art
-
Permalink Reply by Randy C. Rider on
-
To my brother and sister firefighters,
I would like to start by saying that I am neither young or old. I joined my department when I was 18 years old. I am a fourth generation firefighter in my department and take great pride in my heritage but I take more pride in the tradition of firefighting. When I came into the department I was labeled as a "PISS POT" and took alot of ball busting for all the course's that I was attending. I didn't argue, I just kept on rolling along with training and making call's. I was then, I am now, and I always will be a firm believer in learning something and bringing it back to teach others. I think to some point there are seasoned members (NOT OLD) that do feel threatened by the green f.f"s (NEWBIES) and that the green f.f."s do push to hard to try to re-invent the wheel. My department over the past couple of years has had an increase on new members aged 18-23 that do come in and they are hungry to learn and even hungrier to show and possibly move up the ranks but I have seen them show respect to our seasoned members as well. I have had the pleasure of learning alot of hands-on skills from the senior guys but I have learned and expanded on the leadershipo skills that they have also instilled in me. Trust me, the old saying that RESPECT IS EARNED,NOT GIVEN rings true. I preach brotherhood when we are training and even more so on a job, the new or young guys listen and are attentive. Fires are different today then they were 20 years ago, but they still kill the same. All members SEASONED or GREEN need to train the same and play the same! With all this being said I just turned 31 yeears old and finished up my term as chief of my department, the youngest chief in our departments history. I wouldn't have been able to reach that position and keep it without the patience and leadership of my senior brothers and without the inspiration and willingness of brothers that are new. Stay safe one and all.
-
Permalink Reply by jonathon on
-
yes i respect the older generation of ff but i am sad to say that they are old school. we dont have this problem in our department for we have more elder than young. as far as training we have2 state fire instructors in our dept. both the old and the young work together in training and on the fire scene.
-
Permalink Reply by Arkymedic on
-
Wow...
First off I cannot believe someone referred to the veterans of the Fire Service as "Old F**ks". That is just wow.
Before I state my opinion on this matter, let me start by stating I am only 24 and I primarily work EMS. Many may not agree with this but this is my take on things. I was raised around the military my entire life with a hardcore NCO as a father. I can definately tell you that this is one place where respect is definately earned. Now to the heart of the matter. I do not really consider myself to be one of those young guys anymore but I do not consider myself one of the veterans either. I was an Emergency Trauma Tech in Alaska at 15, a FF in AR at 17, and have been in EMS since I was 18 professionally with the last close to 2 being a medic. I am FF1 and 2 certified though I do not get to run with a department since I moved to a municipality with a paid FD. Education is great and I do have a college degree but that does not mean shit. A piece of paper is nice but it doesn't say anything about your intellegence, common sense, skills, nor personality. Too many people are coming out of school with a piece of paper thinking they are just hot shit with nothing left to learn and are God's gift to man. As part of this "generation Y" crowd I feel sorry to say this, but we are an entitlement generation.
As a generation, we feel that we do not have to work for anything and that we are entitled to something. When you compare this to other generations that have worked for everything they have been given, you understand the difference. I grew up as a military brat and the grandson of poor farmers, so I learned about hard work the hard way. I do not expect anything but to earn everything that I have to. A perfect example of this is new paramedics and paragods. I have seen some medics that think that they are entitled to a higher wage then members with longevity. As a new medic should they be entitled to the same rate as someone that has busted their ass for 2,5,10, 15+ years? I think not. Even as a new medic should I expect to make more than a basic or intermediate with years in the company? No.
Now, take the veterans of the fire service that have put their time in over and over. These individuals are being told by many departments that they now have to have a piece of paper to do a job they have been doing for x years. Many of these same veterans are being forced to get certifications and do a job that they have absolutely no interest and desire to be doing or leave the fire service (Ex. Fire based EMS). How would you feel if they told you that you HAD to go to school and get this shit or get out? How would you feel if you were the more qualified individual for a position and had more experience, but the other person got it because they had a piece of paper from a university?
Training is very very important and should never be under-utilized, under-emphasized, nor under- appreciated because complacency kills. When you make comments such as " The fires they fought are not the fires we fight today, they need to evolve", it shows there is an us vs them mentality and that shows hostility. The nature and behavior of fire is just as deadly now as it always has been. We understand our environment we interact with more now then we did and its effect on fire behavior, but fire has not changed. It still takes the fire tetrahedron to create and destroy the chemical process called fire.
The basic thing here is respect. Respect yourself enough to do what you know and feel is right. Respect your wife and family by training, staying safe, and doing what is right. Respect your fellow firefighters by doing your job beyond what is simply required of you and listen to what they have to say. Respect the uniform, job, and the public by being moral, upright, clean and presentable, and never half-assing something. Just remember that the flip side of the coin is that we will be the veteran generation one day.
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Orbell on
-
Hello: I feel that there is something wrong with this picture, seniority or not, we can all learn from each other as a team. The guys that have been on the dpt for a long time should be encouraging the newbies to strive and what they are doing, not critisize.
I have been on the dpt for a little over 8 years and seen people come and go, though when some one new joins I give them every opportunity to ask questions or what ever.
We can learn from the younger generation just as they learn from us.
I think the guys that have been on the dpt for a long time are affraid that some new blood is going to come in and take over the place or do better in the service than they are or did at that level.
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
