The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
The Helmet Cam Ban
Some say helmet cams were doomed from the get go, some say they were the greatest tool used in debriefing and scene analysis. but now with more and more departments banning their use, are they dodging the lawsuit bullet, or are they doing away with a great "learning from your mistakes" tool. HFD has banned their use. Many have said that the recordings may contain info of personal nature and therefor opens the door to lawsuits. although that may be true, if its not posted for the world to see,ie.. WWW. and only used in-house for training purposes, I don't see a problem with them. Haveing a cam in a working fire has so many advantages, to benefiting accident investigation, to helping the new probie have a look-see at what to exspect, and what not to do. the only down fall i see is a potential lawsuit by a moron.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Randy Porter on
-
Rather, let's just jump in as though we're the first person every to have had an original thought and moreover, let's be all snarky and sarcastic while we're at it.
this web-site i assume is full of well fire service educated people, thats why i asked the question. original thought? cant be, im not that good.
and i apologize if my expectations of a more adequate answer from someone with the achievements and credentials of chief waller were more than the status-qua.
I have tremendous leadership in my department, my chief would answer the same question ask 100 times by 100 different people. Becuse they dont know, thats why they are asking, and that's what a leader does. He doesn't pass the buck becuse he's tired of answering it.
I exspect the same of every chief. But I guess not everyone can be that good. I apologize.
So, you like helmet cams, LOL.
-
Permalink Reply by Doug on
-
Haha, no, I see no use for them on the fire ground. And if the video becomes public, which more than a few do, it opens your department, and those in the video, up to too much liability.
-
-
LOL i know.
Every patriot is at first persecuted. `Mark Twain
-
-
So you really don't think the learning potential is worth the risk? Im not trying to give attitude, im trying to understand the rationale.
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
Working backwards as it were, if your chief has to answer the same question 100 times, from 100 different people, you don't think that that might be indicative of a problem.
While it's great you think the world of your chief, what makes you so sure your department is the only one that can say that?
Curious still that you seem to see yourself faultless in this ongoing discussion. You made a reference to past military leadership training (which I presume was yours), that being so, how then could you not think to look for, (to search, as it were) for a search option? You know, look for the answer that might be right in front of you. Seems that would have come up somewhere in military leadership training. As opposed to say, just jumping in feet first without a bother to even think if there were any way possible, at all, ever, to search for a topic. I suppose you'd walk into a library and past the card catalog and just search for the book you wanted. Have you heard about "google"? Maybe not as it's a search engine.
You might want to consider that you perhaps slacked off, as it is "only" a web site and it's not like you spend your time in front of a computer all day. I'm sure you have a lot of more "important" things to do.
As to helmet cams, unless you think that walking around a house or business looking for an activated head, checking drains with a meter to find the source of the "smell" the homeowner called about, the light haze from burned food on the stove or the working fire you caught and are advancing a hoseline into with smoke banked down nearly to the floor can be considered "good" for training, then I'm at a loss as to the value of them.
Other than the self-serving ones, you know the hey-look-at-me-how-cool-am-I videos that show up on youtube (www.youtube.com, they have a search box to, you should check it out) I see little practical value. The ones that I have seen are very disconcerting to watch as you have a very narrow field of view as the wearer moves his head about.
Just seems to me that firefighters have better things to do on the fireground than worrying about whether or not they're shooting the best 'scene', I know I do.
-
Permalink Reply by Wes on
-
As valuable as dash cams have become for law enforcement, the regulated use of cams will be hotly debated. I'm sure the legal precedents have been determined to publicly release or seal the recordings of dash cams; what's been the history for helmet cams. Monday morning QB's instant replay. I'd be very interested to hear related legal current and FUTURE rulings.
Eventually somebody's ass gets saved be it the recorder or recordee.
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:2813495
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:393825
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Topic:963968
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Comment:4370462
http://www.firefighternation.com/xn/detail/889755:Comment:3328476
Randy,
These are just some of the discussions concerning helmet cams. It really did not take me too long at all to check it vs how long it would take to make comments about why you didn't do a search. There was really no reason to get all defensive about some very simple advice.
-
Permalink Reply by Todd on
-
True Ben, but then the OP runs the risk of getting slammed for necroposting. It's one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.
-
Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
-
"So you really don't think the learning potential is worth the risk?"
What kind of risk are you referring to here? The risk of potential lawsuits? That can be very damaging to a dept. Why would you risk something like that? Or were you referring to firefighter safety? Like stated before, firefighters have enough to concentrate on without having to try and get the best angles or lighting. Would you actually risk that? How much would YOU risk for learning potential. There are people doing research and testing everyday, like NIST, in a safe controlled environment, and you can easily get results on the internet about them. Mind you, you may have to use the search button. jk.
-
Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on
-
Randy,
I don't know if I'm playing devils advocate or I'm just much more "tolerant" than some of my friends and others, but I have no problem with any new guy who posts a thread without checking to see if it's been discussed already. As Todd already pointed out, you're likely to get banged for reviving a dead subject if you do the search and then comment. I also don't object to helmet cams. I don't have one, don't know anyone on the job who does, and I don't even know if my department has a policy on their use. (But, truth be told, I've been known to disregard a policy or two anyway.) I have seen some excellent helmet cam footage, especially truck work, on the internet that could be useful as a teaching tool. (ie. what to do, what not to do.) As long as the wearer "forgets" the camera is on and goes about his job as if there were no camera, I don't see a problem.
Legal and privacy issues might complicate matters. If the camera isn't sufficiently low-profile or if it's worn in a way that it will melt down on to your neck, that might further complicate matters. But I would not rule out their use in all cases.
Having said all that, my friend Ben and others were not necessarily being unkind to you. I know that Ben's admonition may have come accross as sounding like a rebuke, but it wasn't. (I once had a friend who reminded me that sometimes things "get lost in the translation", as it were, over the internet. Very true.)
-
-
Randy?
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
Todd,
I haven't seen a lot of that, but it's possible that I may have missed a few.
Some of the original topics get very little play until months later when an incident occurs that makes the OP a hot topic again - for example some of Chris Naum's excellent scenarios.
I've dug up a couple of those myself after being busy and not having the time to really contribute while it was on the front page.
The endless number of "What does your helmet color mean" posts seem to be a lot more common than the total necroposting here. Just MHO, of course.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
