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How Do You Run Elections of Fire Officers in Your Dept.?
I AM LOOKING TO SEE HOW OTHER DEPARTMENTS RUN THEIR ELECTIONS FOR COMPANY OFFICERS. ALSO WHAT QUALIFICATIONS ARE REQUIRED TO BE ELEIGIBLE TO RUN FOR OFFICER. I AM NOT PARTICULARLY HAPPY WITH THE WAY THAT OURS WENT AND WAS LOOKING FOR ANY INFO OR FEEDBACK THAT YOU ALL HAVE. IT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by DOWNS290 on
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I agree it shouldnt be who calls the best bingo and that it should be based on your ability to lead and train the other members of your dept. However I think that all of those extra activities ie: Bingo, Fundraising, Community Service Details, Work Nights, are also a factor, because it shows committment and dedication and a willingness to want to help the department succed. What good is an officer if they make 15% of the total calls for the year, and have the minimum amount of training, and never really make any concerted effort to better themselves with training other than what is done in house?
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My big concern with something like that is what if the "Chief" likes person A over Person B and the qualifications of B are just a little more who does he choose. What if he is related to one of the canidates. That begins to create a conflict of interest.
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By the way I am really enjoying all the input this is a good discussion. I like hearing all the different standpoints on how other depts. Appoint or vote in thier officers.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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The last thing you want to do is to decide a position based on a mathematical outcome.
When you start stating specifically how many calls someone should make to establish "experience", then you are setting a dangerous precedent. I am all for setting a number on meetings and training sessions, but calls should be something like "no cherry picking calls and make as many as you can".
If you don't have a formal promotion process in place, then you have no right to complain. Unless you are willing to establish an officer ascension policy, then you are a "good ole boy" department; like it or not. I am a trustee for our department and I watch the organization very closely. I let the chief do the day to day, but when we are talking about the direction of the department and who should serve in the officer roles, we look at them very closely and together, we make a choice, based on qualifications. If we don't feel that a firefighter has the drive to move up, he remains a firefighter. But, if a firefighter is clearly looking to become a leader in our department, then we are more than willing to invest in that.
If some of the departments continue to operate under the "good ole boy" program, don't forget about the alcohol consumption clause.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Tiger Schmittendorf on
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I remember you....
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Permalink Reply by Adam Gillis on
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we are in the proccess of getting our bylaws changed so the old way of nominating a person during the elections will be put to rest also our elections that used to be in march will be moved to december
in september there will be a sign up sheet posted for who wants to run for an office. in octber our board of directors will review the sheets to see in the members who signed up for the postion are qualifed and the in november the list is finaized for the election in december
i dont have our current bylaws or the new ones so i dont know off the top of my head which classes are needed
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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It seems to me that a Lieutenant with little hope for advancement (unless the Captain quits, moves up the ladder or comes to grief) would get frustrated in time.
Joe, this is how it is in the 'paid' world also. Someone has to 'retire' before that position becomes available. In smaller depts, that can be a very long wait. I know guys who spent 25yrs as engineers. Now they probably weren't officer material anyway, but during their careers there just wasn't a lot of opportunity for advancement.
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Well here is the problem we are in the transition phases of moving from what you called the "good ol Boy" phase to actually having some sort of order in the asscention of rank. We have established classes and guide lines, and over the next few years they will become more difficult to obtain. One problem now is that if we put to many requirements in at one time there will be only a small group of people able to run and more than likely not even enought to fill the officer positions we have.
As far as making calls - how do you know if they are "cherry picking" unless you only see them for the big ones. My issue is you dont even always see them there for those calls. One of your main responsobilities as an officer is to be around to teach and lead the other members of the dept. If they are only there for 35 calls out of 320 (and counting) what are they helping to establish. They certinly are not around enough to ensure that the members are retaining what you as an officer has taught them, or even to be there to answer questions, or to do your job and actually lead a crew on a call.
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And to clarify what I meant by putting to many requirements. I mean beyond (essentials, BVR, NIMS 100,200,700,800, Hazmat Ops, ICS for the Fire Service)
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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I guess every fulltime officer must be bored to death then??? What many here have missed is it takes years to craft yourself into a great officer with experience. How many calls are you actually going to make, then run, and have critical decision making with a once a year election process. You be lucky to get one or two per year.
Waiting to be promoted happens everyday in the fulltime world. Some decide that they are happy on the line as a LT for life.
Worried about if they can't cut it??? You are promoted, you are challenged, you fail, you get retrained and then field tested again, you can't handle the position's responsibility then you get demoted... even in the fulltime world.
Someone worried about the chief promoting his good old boys... cliche. I never mentioned in my response that the chief promoted anybody. It is an outside process which he has no say in. Takes the good ole boy theory out of the equation.
Not every firefighter is deserving of a chance to become an officer, some never want to be one, some never will have the training and experience to handle such a position. Why do you feel you need to offer that to keep volunteers?
Why do you feel every year we should offer everyone the chance to hold an officer rank. That would be like once a year, at your regular non-fire department job, your boss decides that he is going to swap out supervisors and current supervisors go back on the floor. Damn that would great for production huh? But ok for the volunteer fire service???
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This is to Joe and Jay.
I guess every fulltime officer must be bored to death then??? What many here have missed is it takes years to craft yourself into a great officer with experience. How many calls are you actually going to make to begin with, then run the call and have critical decision making with a once a year election process. In a small VFD you be lucky to get one or two good experiences per year.
Waiting to be promoted happens everyday in the fulltime world. Waiting is learning. Some will decide that they are happy on the line as a LT for life. Thats fine, do you want him as a Captain or Chief if they don't really desire it? Probably not, but they are good line officers who get experienced and do a good job for the mission.
Worried about if they can't cut it??? You are promoted, you are challenged, you fail, you get retrained and then field tested again, you can't handle the position's responsibility then you get demoted... even in the fulltime world.
Someone worried about the chief promoting his good old boys... cliche. I never mentioned in my response that the chief promoted anybody. It is an outside process which he has no say in. Takes the good ole boy theory out of the equation. If you use an assessment center, lack of training and experience is easily identified when they start killing people in the promotional process. Best to find out then as compared to hanging the bunting over the doors for the next LODD. But hey how do you know with an election??? He who bought the most beers works too I guess.
Not every firefighter is deserving of a chance to become an officer, some never want to be one, some never will have the training and experience to handle such a position. Why do you feel you need to offer that to keep volunteers morale up?
Why do you feel every year we should offer everyone the chance to hold an officer rank. That would be like once a year, at your regular non-fire department job, your boss decides that he is going to swap out supervisors and current supervisors go back on the floor. Damn that would great for production huh? But ok for the volunteer fire service???
Damn this happens so much they now make helmet rockers that say EX-Chief or Captain. I personally don't give a rats ass that you may have been elected before.... but this easily causes the clicks to follow their favorites when people can't let go that they are no longer an officer.
But "Hey 200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress"... must be right.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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"Why do you feel every year we should offer everyone the chance to hold an officer rank. That would be like once a year, at your regular non-fire department job, your boss decides that he is going to swap out supervisors and current supervisors go back on the floor. Damn that would great for production huh? But ok for the volunteer fire service???"
That's not quite the same thing.
To use your example, the entire company - or at least group you work in - would annually pick (from a pool of qualified people) those who they judge are most competent and able to fit the supervisory positions. It does not fall to just one person (the "boss") to decide who goes where.
Thinking about my workplace, hell it may actually improve productivity.
I think your other points are valid.
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