The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
Charleston Firehouse Ordered to Remove Nativity Scene
CHARLESTON, S.C. - A fire department in South Carolina has removed a nativity display from a station after getting a complaint.
The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Monday that the nativity scene was removed from Charleston's Fire Station 12 after the complaint that the display supports Christianity.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 to Mayor Joe Riley and Fire Chief Thomas Carr asking that the display be removed. The letter says a local resident complained.
The complaint was referred to the city's legal department, which recommended the scene be removed, citing U.S. Supreme Court rulings against promoting one religion over another.
A number of Charleston fire stations have Christmas decorations, but those include Santa Claus and holiday lights.
___
Information from: The Post and Courier, http://www.postandcourier.com
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
The Post and Courier of Charleston reported Monday that the nativity scene was removed from Charleston's Fire Station 12 after the complaint that the display supports Christianity.
The Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation sent a letter dated Dec. 17 to Mayor Joe Riley and Fire Chief Thomas Carr asking that the display be removed. The letter says a local resident complained.
The complaint was referred to the city's legal department, which recommended the scene be removed, citing U.S. Supreme Court rulings against promoting one religion over another.
A number of Charleston fire stations have Christmas decorations, but those include Santa Claus and holiday lights.
___
Information from: The Post and Courier, http://www.postandcourier.com
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Vic Silverfish on
-
I'd be interested to know the true circumstances. There has to be some reason the city would remove this display. If the display were on private property, the city would have no right to order it removed, so I have a strong feeling that there is more to the story than this.
-
Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on
-
Nowhere did I claim that the Jewish population was controlling the media, banks or even the public displays of their faith. I simply spoke from personal experiences in my town which I thought to be relevant. Maybe I wasn't clear that the real problem is the political correctness that is preemptively trying to not offend anyone and ends up offending as many if not more in the process.
South Andover, MA only restricted the Menorah to one day THIS YEAR, and only because of a generic rule that bans all displays not just religious ones. I still stand by my belief that no religious display other than a Christian one would be targeted the way it has been in Charleston or countless other cities. This may or may not compare to other forms of persecution directed towards other religions, but then again we are not discussing other forms of persecution here, we are discussing nativity displays put up for the Christmas season.
If we want to expand out to other current forms of persecution, more Christians are killed for their faith worldwide each year than any other religion. That is what happens when you are on the wrong side of conversion by the sword.
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
Apparently the private property is adjacent to the fire station, and the property owner has voluntarily placed the creche there for years so that the religious part of the display would not be on city property. If the property owner wants to display the creche in his yard, it's difficult for me to see how the city can make the firefighters take it down.
As an interesting side note, Charleston is proud of its heritage as the "Holy City" because of the large number of churches and synagogues in town.
-
-
This is persecution? Saying tax money can't go to fund a religious display? That the government, with all of its fallibility and human weakness should get itself involved with religion?
The courts have consistently ruled that government cannot promote any religion, and unfortunately that means no creche at the fire house, no Ten Commandments at the courthouse, etc. This applies to ALL religious displays, so no Budda, etc. If you can show one religion that is allowed whilst Christians are prohibited, I (and the ACLU) have your back, as you have a legitimae gripe.
Note that by applying to all faiths, it is fair. Sucks, but that's the price we pay living in a free society.
-
Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
-
I'm going to want to see the data on your statement that 'more Christians are killed for their faith worldwide each year than any other religion." Frankly I don't believe it.
It sounds to me like "persecution" is becoming a new fundamentalist buzz word. Insecurity might be more appropriate. Show me where christians are being persecuted in this country.
Because TWO discussions in FFN about xmas signs/displays and it rises to the level of persecution? Bearing in mind of course that both discussions revolved around the issue of xmas sign/display on city property.
What I notice is that certain people, irrespective of the facts or the general discussion want to MAKE it about persecution. It is an obvious and blatant attempt to either flat out ignore facts or twist them around to fit what it is that they want to argue.
Again, the reason you seem to think that christian displays are targeted is because they seem to keep showing up in or on public buildings. That being said, as nasty and obnoxious as some christian groups have become it is not hard to understand why then some may be targeted for harassment themselves (thanks, westboro baptist church).
-
Permalink Reply by Raymund Niere on
-
i agree with you Paul. i hope this enlighten their minds:)
-
-
Jack,
I think the point of "religious faith" is that there is no way to prove or disprove the existance of a Supreme Being scientifically. Thus, the "faith" in "religious faith".
-
Permalink Reply by Firechief2411 on
-
You know the funny thing about this, who ever filed this complaint one day will be screaming for help from the Fire Department and the Fire Department will help because it's our job. This is just such a waste of time. Who cares about a nativity display as long a the Charleston FD does there job. Be safe guys.
-
Permalink Reply by Beverly on
-
John and Jack
I don't claim to be a chaplain, I AM the chaplain in our department and my comments were not directed at insulting or invoking intolerance of other religions. I do not have to disregard my personal beliefs to be a good chaplain, I have to respect the beliefs of people who choose to believe differently and to offer them guidance and support in a manner that complents their beliefs or sometimes in a non denominational fashion (especially for those who do not believe in any greater being). These things I am equipped to do, but in regards to this matter I am expressing my personal belief, which I still have the right to do. The problem here is with those who find any excuse to have to regulate, limit and devaluate others and their beliefs. We have become a society that takes offense at everything, that wants no one to have the right to be different and recognized as such from anyone else.
If in fact you had read the post..not just cut and pasted...you would have seen the part that says we are to be tolerant of all religious beliefs!
My guess is that it does not offend you that some organizations want to remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance and "in God we tust" from our currency, I am horrified at the thought of these actions.
Yes, I do know that other religions celebrate at this time of year as well...since I am of multiple religious backgrounds, this is very obvious to me and to anyone who enters my home during this season....or any other for that fact. But again, as is the problem in this country, you and others are assuming you know something about me and about how I choose to lead my life.
It is becoming more and more that religion has to be kept to ourselves and who knows how long before it will require a secret handshake. I am not naive, you are if you believe that taking away one freedom does not lead to the revocation of other freedoms, it appears that you just haven't had one of the freedoms you cherish infringed upon.
Nor am I closed minded to not be able to comprehend that not everyone has the same belief or values, but it is my hope that you can understand that the God I believe in watches over and loves everyone, whether they believe or acknowledge Him.
Also, religion is based on faith. Faith is found within each and everyone of us, if you have faith in an almighty being, by whatever name you choose to call him or her, that is your right. But as I explained to my children, faith is like the wind, if we are inside the house, we cannot see the wind or feel its touch but we can see the effects it has on the world around us. We believe that the wind is there even though we cannot be 100% sure that the tree is moving due to the wind, it could be a bird in the tree, an earthquake ( not too likely in NY) or any other unseen cause.
So may whomever you have faith in protect you as well as the God I believe in will do.
-
-
Beverly,
For one who accuses others on not fully reading something it's clear to me that you have that failing.
-Please show me anywhere where I made any reference to whether or not you are a chaplain?
-I never said you had to disregard your personal beliefs.
-Who exactly is trying to regulate, limit or devaluate yours or anyone elses beliefs?
-I did indeed read the post, and the links and I don't cut and paste (unless quotes or links)
-Why should I be offended if in god we trust is removed? They are only words. You really think that by removing them it would change this country? Really?
-It's becoming more and more that religion has to be kept to yourself? Really? And that is because religious symbols/displays, icons are not being allowed on public property?
-Which freedom exactly have they taken away? The one that allows religious displays on public property? Clearly you don't get it.
-Religion is based on faith. Thanks for the mini-lecture on what religion is. As a pagan I hadn't a clue.
Your problem is that you see things only from what you think or want them to be and that it has to be in line with YOUR religious beliefs. All well and good for you but your right to do so ends when you or someone else wants to display those beliefs on or in public property.
What you, and so many others are saying (or should I say, keep harping on about) is that you WANT christian displays ANYWHERE you see fit and when told no, like a petulant child, you stamp your collective feet and cry 'it ain't fair." Tough noogies.
Do you really NOT get that it has NOTHING to do with your personal freedoms? Seriously, it does not. You do not have a right to display your religious beliefs in a public building.
As I explained elsewhere, how would a non-christian (say hindu or muslim) feel, going into town hall or court, to find it festooned with all manner of religious symbols, signs and statuary. Do you think these folks would feel that they were about to be treated fairly, as non-christians?
Sorry Beverly, chaplain or not, faithful or not, well written or not, your argument fails. What you want is to impose your specific religious branding on places that need to be and have to be, neutral, i.e. government buildings. Feel free to decorate your home, your yard, your automobile and your church. Where any type of religious fetish you wish and you are protected by federal law to do so. You just can not use public buildings as an extension of your church.
May the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster Bless You and Yours With HIS Noodley Appendage.
Happy Festivus.
scrooge out
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
