Pennsylvania Volunteer Departments Turn to High Schools for Recruitment

PATRICK BUCHNOWSKI
The Tribune-Democrat

DAVIDSVILLE - With declining ranks hurting volunteer fire departments nationwide, local firefighters are reaching out to high school students.

Volunteers from Conemaugh, Ideal, Hollsopple and Jerome fire departments on Thursday pitched the benefits of joining the fire service to more than 500 Conemaugh Township Area students at the high school auditorium.

They're looking to pass the torch to the next generation.

"There are guys involved in the fire department for 25-30 years and they don't have too much time left," firefighter Chad Knauer said. "I want the fire department to be here for the next 150 years."

The volunteers are recruiting junior firefighters ages 14 to 18.

From there, they can blossom into professional firefighters, EMS personnel, paramedics, nurses and water rescue members, firefighters said.

"We nurture them for the next four years through training and practicing the skills they need to become firefighters," said Robert Simonsick, chaplain for the Conemaugh company.

The 30-minute assembly included a video and display of firefighting gear.

The need for firefighters and EMS personnel is pushing recruitment to center stage, said Scott Grahn, manager of the Somerset County Swift Water Rescue Team.

"That's why we're here today," Grahn said.

Grahn helped student Shawn Dufrene slip into a life vest.

The 17-year-old said she would be interested in firefighter training.

"I think it would be useful to me," she said. "I'm more of a pacifist. I would rather help save lives."

Teenagers and adults wanting to know about the fire service can attend an open house. The doors will be open at the Conemaugh Fire Department from 5 to 8 p.m. Saturday.

Young people are being encouraged to attend.

"A lot of kids are afraid (of joining)," Simonsick said. "They just need to come in and try it out and see if it works for them. That's the big thing."

Copyright 2009 The Tribune-Democrat
December 4, 2009

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Permalink Reply by WestPhilly on December 9, 2009 at 12:36pm

John,
We may be talking past each other. I'm not suggesting these programs (the Sea Cadets and Junior/Explorers) are the same, just substantially alike in terms of activities and philosophy. I only raised the point at all to illustrate that volunteer departments - like the military - can and do reach out to high school-age kids and that it's perfectly legitimate to do so. Nowhere in this story does it suggest that high school kids will be operating on a fireground like real firefighters. I'm well aware that is in fact the practice at some volunteer departments, but I'm looking at this news article for what it says, and what it's saying makes perfect sense in my view.

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on December 9, 2009 at 12:42pm

It's a shame that you decided to get personal, "...you don't have a clue in hell" and that your reading comprehension plainly sucks.

Please re-read the posts.

eply by timothy fento 3 hours ago
jack/dt i got the answers for my questions so i took them down i did not start this one and this area is more than 100 miles from me

Reply by Jack/dt 2 hours ago
ok timothy good to know it was you and not some greater "censor" it's happened in here before.

Reply by timothy fento 2 hours ago
like i said before it was NOT me that started this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reply by Jack/dt 1 hour ago
Right, I understood that and was commenting on your taking down your discussion as opposed to it haven been taken down the the webchief.

Reply by timothy fento 1 hour ago
ok sorry but some of the questions i had asked. wasn't asked in the proper way i'm sorry for that i was asking questions because i didn't think my dept. was doing thing the right way

eply by timothy fento 8 minutes ago
sorry but i got my answer and NOT from you so i guess that means you don't have a clue in hell

So you see, clearly you misunderstood me. When you replied that it was you who deleted your own post, I replied that was good that it was you and not someone else who deleted your post. Not that it was good you deleted, I think every post should stay and never be deleted, but that it was good you yourself did it and weren't being censored.

I never said or implied that you started this post. I was commenting on the disappearance of two other posts which I believe were both started by you. It's very clear that this post was started by the FFN WebTeam (see, it says so right up at the very top.)

Do you get it now?
And not to worry, as you so very nicely put it (and let me make sure I quote you correctly), "...you don't have a clue in hell". I will refrain from contributing any helpful comments to any discussions you post in the future. Your gratitude and rudeness here has been sufficient.

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Permalink Reply by timothy fento on December 9, 2009 at 3:25pm

i took it as you were saying i posted this one and as i said before sorry for the rudeness but at the time i took it as you were saying i did

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Permalink Reply by Tiger Schmittendorf on December 9, 2009 at 7:19pm

I rest my case...

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Permalink Reply by Tiger Schmittendorf on December 9, 2009 at 8:06pm

Mike -

In my opinion, it's all about expectations. What does the department expect of their youth program --- and most importantly, what do the young people expect to get from their youth program?

A fire department sponsored youth program is an investment in the young people of our community, in the future of our fire service and in the future of our community. Fire departments that create youth programs solely to benefit the organization (volunteer slavery) are missing the boat and are doomed to fail.

If they don't know their place, my guess is that "their place" was not adequately defined, explained and monitored.

For some meager insight on this X-Box generation of firefighters, read my blog titled: From the X-Box to the Box Alarm.

However, my general observation is that we often focus more on whether or not the individual is meeting the needs of the department -- and rarely worry about whether or not the organization is meeting the needs of the individual. That failed approach applies to all of our members, regardless of age.

I'll be writing more about this soon but in the meantime, it continues to amaze, and sometimes baffle, me how a discussion like this can go so far off course.

So, to get us back on track, I thought I'd cut to the chase and survey the audience at www.firerecruiter.com: http://firerecruiter.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/survey-says-fd-youth-...

Let's decide once and for all.

Maybe...

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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on December 9, 2009 at 8:26pm

Art...

1)Yes, we continually hold close to top honors year after year for most dead firefighters. In the last few years, they've started a course called "courage to be safe" course as a response to this. It's an excellent course that looks at many leadership and attitude issues that contribute to LODD's, although I think it needs to be required annually or bi-annually, not simply an optional course. When it comes to courses like this one that can save lives, PA shouldn't simply lead the horse to the water, they should shove the water down the horse's throat.

2) Another problem is our state standards. Although I will not sit here and say I know all the state standards for sure, I can tell you there are guys making interior attacks in this state who (forget FF1) have never taken an essentials course. I've learned since joining this site that some states in fact have very high educational/training standards for even volunteer firefighters. I think PA needs to wake up and realize there's PROBABLY a correlation between not requiring even basic training standards and killing more firefighters every year than almost anyone else.

3) We (many departments in my area) fight wildland, our county even has a specific wildland team which does federal deployments. We don't have the publicity for it because we don't have the large and devastating fires that some of our western brothers and sisters have.

4) Can you provide a link or some direction to this Lairdsville inciden; I am not familiar.

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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on December 9, 2009 at 9:43pm

blair:
Yes; go to www.chiefreasonart.com.
At the top of the page is a tab that says "Brad's Page".
This is dedicated to Bradley Golden, who was 19 when he died in a training fire.
The Lairdsville department at the time was populated with 19 and 20 year old OFFICERS. The Lt in charge of Brad and Ben Morris BUGGED OUT and LEFT THEM. The Lt was 20 at the time.
It is an utterly heart-wrenching story. After you have read, please give me your thoughts.
Art

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on December 9, 2009 at 9:44pm

I can't help but wonder if there isn't some correlation between a department's financial and manpower issues and how they use their under age members. Are those departments so strapped that they have to use minors as firefighters, or is it more of a cultural thing in those departments? Or is it some combination of both?

Based on what I read in these posts most of the juniors are just that, 'junior firefighters', in other words they are not part of an established bsa explorer post but just junior members in their department. If that is the case then I further suspect that there is little oversight with regard for their safety, NFPA standards, OSHA and federal child labor laws. By the same token those departments may not be operating anywhere close to NFPA compliance for their adult members.

I can personally see the advantage to both recruiting at the high schools and having an established and properly governed explorer program. But the bsa explorer program is restrictive in what the explorers can do and clearly identifies it as just that, an exploratory program exposing young adults to the potential of a career in the fire service. It isn't and shouldn't be an adjunct program for understaffed departments.

Allowing youth to see and experience what it takes to be a firefighter is a good approach to acquiring them once they turn 18. I see no harm in such approach so long as it is clearly established that they are indeed only children and only there to observe. A separate training program is fine to give them some experience and hands on training but it should end there. That training should not be considered to be equal to that of a adult firefighter who has completed FFI. Assuming of course, that a department even bothers to require it.

I believe that there are two somewhat parallel issues at work here; an explorer program and a junior program. There is a minimal cost to a department to have an explorer post but the liability insurance is through the bsa, whereas in a junior program it is an in-house program and the liability is through the department. So consolidating them both as youth programs is misleading as there are clear rules to the bsa explorer program and essentially none, or they're made up as they go along in the junior programs. Perhaps the better poll question would be whether a department should have one or the other.

Until and unless it is clear that any youth program, whatever they're called, are only there for educational purposes there will be strong objection to them. I disregard any and all comments from those in such programs as they are only self-serving. As adults it is us to all of us to ensure that children are never used with or in place of qualified adults. Any argument to the contrary violates every tenet of responsibility towards minors. Likewise any argument for the use of minors on the fireground stands on a equal footing with an argument for the use of minors in factories or sweatshops.

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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on December 9, 2009 at 10:34pm

Get them while they are young! Its hard to get todays youth (our future Firefighters) to take on the responciablity

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Permalink Reply by blair4630 on December 10, 2009 at 6:57am

You know what, I did read that before from you, but I looked over it again. It's scary, and I know those attitudes and scenarios go on at alot of places. It's a dangerous job we do, and although I understand the realities of time and other commitments, I wish there were laws in place in my state to mandate and regulate initial and continuing education, physicals, etc. for every vol. firefighter prior to them being cleared for active duty. It would be nice to see some attitudes change as well. I am familiar with your comment about the officers. I have seen a few line officers that at the time of their promotion had no essentials course or live fire. That's essentially taking a kid from high school, skipping basic training, individualized training, and NCO school, and making them directly a seargent. It's scary stuff, and it happens every day in the country.