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Differences in Civilian and RIT Rescue
So I was reading a FF magazine, and in it was an article about different sets of tactics for civillian and FF rescue. And in this article it mentioned that there are some dept's that train the same way either for rescuing a civillian or rescuing a firefighter. It then goes on to give some differences between each type of rescue and why they should not be treated the same as far as tactics go. Different things to keep in mind while performing a search for a homeowner or a firefighter.
I have 2 questions/polls or whatever you wanna call it regarding this topic:
#1- Be honest, are there any dept's out there that DO train the same way for rescuing a civillian or rescuing a firefighter? Personally, I know of none around here.
#2- What would be some differing tactics between the two? For example: searching for a civilian usually is focused in the most common areas (near windows,doors or in the actual fire location). Searching for a firefighter is different as he/she could be anywhere within the structure. Another example would be dragging a civilian out who is wearing likely minimal clothing as opposed to a firefighter who is fully dressed in PPE and other tools. A little more difficult.
I hope this generates many comments, not only for myself, but for others who might be curious.
Thanks. stay safe and have fun.
I have 2 questions/polls or whatever you wanna call it regarding this topic:
#1- Be honest, are there any dept's out there that DO train the same way for rescuing a civillian or rescuing a firefighter? Personally, I know of none around here.
#2- What would be some differing tactics between the two? For example: searching for a civilian usually is focused in the most common areas (near windows,doors or in the actual fire location). Searching for a firefighter is different as he/she could be anywhere within the structure. Another example would be dragging a civilian out who is wearing likely minimal clothing as opposed to a firefighter who is fully dressed in PPE and other tools. A little more difficult.
I hope this generates many comments, not only for myself, but for others who might be curious.
Thanks. stay safe and have fun.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Derek R. on
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thanks for your comment, but I would have to disagree with you about that being the only difference. Here's an example. Let's say you're dragging out the homeowner, who could be wearing his housecoat, or even jeans and a shirt. So now you have your arms under his and begin gragging. Not such a bad experience. Now let's say you have a downed firefighter. Chances are good that he has been through the structure anough that he could be now soaked in water, which will add weight to the already weighed down firefighter with all his PPE. You're looking at a possible extra 100lbs to that FF. And likely he will be in pretty good shape and already weighing on average 200-240lbs. Now add the ppe and water soaked gear. Just grabbing his scba may not be sufficient in a maze of rubble throughout the structure and without a RIT. And if you do your search for a downed firefighter the same as a homeowner search, it may take you a bit longer to find the FF in bad conditions.
Thank you for the comment. Like I mentioned. I also wanted to know how other dept's train.
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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We had a fire where a child was rescued by a firefighter and everyone thought the ff went in the ambulance because they were helping with CPR. It turnout the firefigher had reentered the fire building and became trapped. At that time we had the old PASS devices that had to be manually turned on to work and his was not on.
Things have changed since then and have had a few firefighter rescues after they have become trapped.
This would be one of those cases where other departments have probably learned from and hopefully addressed the issue and have trained to prevent a similar occurance.
I remember the different ideas on removing a firefighter. One was to use the waist straps on the SCBA and buckle them on to your SCBA and drag them that way.
What I don't really like here is thatyou are compromising your own airpack here as well. We have trained and drilled on releasing the downed FF's waist strap and going through their legs to make a makeshift harness. You can take webbing through the shoulder straps and drag the FF, vs attaching your SCBA to theirs. It is a different experience when you are the one being dragged and this technique worked well in our scenarios.
On another note is the DRD (Drag Rescue Device) devices you see with turnouts today. (basically a webbing harness integrated into a turnout coat where you can drag a FF out). We used these and I was the victim in our scenario and from a personal experience that sucked being dragged out by. I found the coat wanted to push my facepiece off and the helmet also pushed your head down. However, in the event of a downed FF, what matters is getting them out and that is what these devices were made to do, but it is definately something worth training on if you have them, it is a different experience.
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Not all members in our brigade have the DRD yet, they're coming with the new gear. Fortunately mine has the integrated webbing, I've had my new TOG for almost 3 years, and I agree with you that it is somewhat uncomfortable being hauled by it. I,too, was the guinee pig in our training. Overall, it's nice knowing that it's there, just in case.
I have read about using the waist strap of the ba between the legs as a harness. Have never actually tried or practiced it. Maybe our dept. is one that is waiting for something bad to happen before something gets looked at. Don't get me wrong, we have an awesome dept with some very experienced and knowledgable members, it's just that we have never had to do rescue on a firefighter before. I'm just working on stopping a potential problem before it happens.
This is great. I will be conversing with our training office for sure.
Thanks again to everyone and i hope to hear more.
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Derek,
Any training you can do with an SCBA is great and any training you can do in FF self survival, MAYDAY, and rescue only helps so when or if a situation does occur, hopefully you are ready.
Along with our RIT training and self survival we did some SCBA skills which even for many senior FF's learned something. We did things like wearing the flashhoods backwards to act as a blidfold and did basic skills like changing out a cylinder, changing out a buddy's cylinder, buddy breathing, removing the pack while on air and putting it back on, recharging the cylinder while wearing it and so forth. Another simple drill is calling a MAYDAY while on air and in turnouts and then have people listen to the radio and see the difference how mic positioning, and so forth makes a difference.
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Exactly. Like I said. This discussion will be brought to our training officer to be added to the list. May take a little while to get it all because there's a lot to do, but I'm positive it will be done.
Anytime we can, we do SCBA trainings "blindfolded". Like you mentioned, putting the flashhod on backwards. We even have old face pieces that that are covered in duct tape. And we also do things like the basics, tieing knots. changing bottles, fallowing hose lines in and out of a fire, obstacle courses, removing the pack but staying on air for tight space crawling and such. Train as close to realistic as possible. And all this new information is a bonus. Again, I don't want to be " that guy,..or that dept." who waited for something bad to happen to "fix" it, when it could have been avoided beforehand.
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Permalink Reply by ashfire on
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I think what happened at that time the attention was on the child that was pulled from the building and not the firefighter.
Many things have changed because of many fire scenes in our county, if it resulted in loss of life of a firefighter or civilian or major damage to a building when something happen didn't seem right.
The county fire service starts looking at everything and everyone involve and then start coming up changes to keep it from happening again.
Two firefighters became trapped in two incidents because of someone venting the building at the wrong time and the fire flashing or causing something to fall on them. Both had to rescued by RIT and other teams from the building.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Improper ventilation (wrong place, wrong time, uncoordinated tactically with the rest of the operation) is a problem no matter how it's done. Opening windows, breaking windows, and PPV/PPA can all cause flashover that will trap firefighters if not done in a well-coordinated manner.
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Derek,
Make sure that you have Universal Rescue Connectors (URCs) on your SCBA. The new industry-standard location is on the pack frame to the left of the cylinder valve. It's a crappy location - we have to teach our guys to low-profile the pack to access their own URC.
However, if you have a RIT SCBA or just a spare (the driver's SCBA from the attack engine does nicely) you can pre-rig the transfill hose, so that when you get the SCBA to the low-air firefighter, you just have to pop two dust covers, make one quick-connect, and turn on the RIT SCBA cylinder valve, all of which can be done by feel even when wearing the oven mitts.
Once you get the downed firefighter some air, if the fire isn't an immediate threat and the firefighter isn't dying, the civilian will usually be the higher priority.
However, everything is situational, and if in doubt, rescue the firefighter first, especially if the firefighter is in a known location and the civilian hasn't been found yet. In that situation, you may have to write the civilian off.
The bottom line rule is...there is no rule that fits every situation. You have to remain calm, communicate, assess the situation, and do the option that is right situationally.
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We use the UCAN mneumonic for MAYDAYs (Unit, Conditions, Actions, Needs) but we've also started using it for team movement reports inside the structure. That has several advantages. Rather than repeating then here, you can see my blog on 7-Sided Searches and UCAN at All Hazards Contemplations if you're interested.
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Derek,
Not all of our members have the DRD yet, either. We practice extending the waist strap, clipping it between the downed firefighter's legs (so that the drag won't pull the SCBA off as you drag the firefighter), and clipping a webbing loop to the SCBA harness. The top of the pack frame (big hole or an open bend in a metal rod frame member) makes a great place to clip in.
The webbing or DRD essentially install handles on the downed firefighter. It creates a handhold for more than one firefighter, so that additional RIT members can assist in moving the downed firefighter, even in tight quarters.
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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on
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In our RIT pack we have the mast link webbing...a series of loops one for each arm and one for each leg...grap and pull away...can even be used for loadbearing if needed....Paul
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Paul, we experimented with the link webbing and carry it, but it tends to get tangled in debris and it can be very difficult to rig correctly in zero-viz. When the firefighter is wearing a SCBA, it's easier to just convert the SCBA to a drag harness, use a single webbing loop, and start the drag. Fewer moves, less complicated, and follows the KISS principle.
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