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Dead Firefighter Walkin'- the Next LODD
I had just finished reading a depressing thought I found on facebook by Christopher Naum:
“There’s an awful lot of time, energy and resources being committed and directed towards fire service safety. Is anyone really listening? Does anyone really care?” Are we just running against the wind?
Almost immediately after reading that, I find out that a downstate Illinois fire protection district has a problem. Some of their firefighters do not have the proper qualifications for responding to and working a structure fire.
“I see there are firefighters with zero hours in training,” one trustee said. “Either you are a firefighter or you’re not.”
Most were the older guys, retired, and unable or unwilling to commit the time and energy needed to meet the requirements set forth by the state of Illinois.
According to the Illinois Fire Protection Act, firefighters are required to meet a minimum of 24 hours of training per year. I'm still trying to confirm that number.
I did some quick math. My 3rd grade daughter confirmed my calculations. That’s two hours a month. 30 minutes a week.
Tell me there aren’t firefighters out there that are donning equipment with which they are not completely familiar, advancing the wrong size line with the wrong nozzle into a ‘burning box’ just waiting to collapse, unable to recognize the deadly warning signs of a catastrophic fire event for which their equally untrained buddies will have to come in and effect a rescue they are ill-prepared to attempt potentially killing them all.
Please tell me this is a unique situation. TELL ME!
Recognizing the liability of untrained firefighters on the fireground, the trustees of this fire protection district are considering their chief’s proposal to form a second tier of membership- call it an auxiliary role.
Keep the guys active, but don’t put them into a position where they could hurt themselves or others. There are other things these guys could do in a support role.
Sounds like a great idea, right?
You’ve read this far, you earned your payoff:
After the news of the proposed change appeared on the FireRescue1 website, one lonely comment appeared. It’s so bizarre; I’m not quite able to accept that it wasn’t posted as a facetious remark. Here it is, by ‘tommy517’:
“I think it is unreal what law makers are trying to require volunteer firefighters training for responding to calls. I know they feel it is for firefighter safety they come up with some of the stuff, and anything to make it safer is better. However, someone who has done it for years should be given some credit for years of service. I’m a volunteer and I love it. There isn’t anything much better to me than running on fire and rescue calls. I took all the required classes I needed at the time. Now they are wanting to come up with new stuff all the time. When I started I was a student in high school. Now I have a family and work full time. Its hard to get all the “new” trainings that are out there. I wish I had the time to go and take all the new classes and find out what is new in the fire service. With a job and family now its hard to respond to calls sometimes let alone run here and there for classes. Really what has changed? We still gear up get on the truck and put the wet stuff on the red stuff…”
Like he said, “Really, what has changed?’”
Seriously, folks. How many line of duty injuries and worse do we have to endure before this kind of mindset changes?
Don't be the next LODD. Don't be a dead firefighter walking.
“There’s an awful lot of time, energy and resources being committed and directed towards fire service safety. Is anyone really listening? Does anyone really care?” Are we just running against the wind?
Almost immediately after reading that, I find out that a downstate Illinois fire protection district has a problem. Some of their firefighters do not have the proper qualifications for responding to and working a structure fire.
“I see there are firefighters with zero hours in training,” one trustee said. “Either you are a firefighter or you’re not.”
Most were the older guys, retired, and unable or unwilling to commit the time and energy needed to meet the requirements set forth by the state of Illinois.
According to the Illinois Fire Protection Act, firefighters are required to meet a minimum of 24 hours of training per year. I'm still trying to confirm that number.
I did some quick math. My 3rd grade daughter confirmed my calculations. That’s two hours a month. 30 minutes a week.
Tell me there aren’t firefighters out there that are donning equipment with which they are not completely familiar, advancing the wrong size line with the wrong nozzle into a ‘burning box’ just waiting to collapse, unable to recognize the deadly warning signs of a catastrophic fire event for which their equally untrained buddies will have to come in and effect a rescue they are ill-prepared to attempt potentially killing them all.
Please tell me this is a unique situation. TELL ME!
Recognizing the liability of untrained firefighters on the fireground, the trustees of this fire protection district are considering their chief’s proposal to form a second tier of membership- call it an auxiliary role.
Keep the guys active, but don’t put them into a position where they could hurt themselves or others. There are other things these guys could do in a support role.
Sounds like a great idea, right?
You’ve read this far, you earned your payoff:
After the news of the proposed change appeared on the FireRescue1 website, one lonely comment appeared. It’s so bizarre; I’m not quite able to accept that it wasn’t posted as a facetious remark. Here it is, by ‘tommy517’:
“I think it is unreal what law makers are trying to require volunteer firefighters training for responding to calls. I know they feel it is for firefighter safety they come up with some of the stuff, and anything to make it safer is better. However, someone who has done it for years should be given some credit for years of service. I’m a volunteer and I love it. There isn’t anything much better to me than running on fire and rescue calls. I took all the required classes I needed at the time. Now they are wanting to come up with new stuff all the time. When I started I was a student in high school. Now I have a family and work full time. Its hard to get all the “new” trainings that are out there. I wish I had the time to go and take all the new classes and find out what is new in the fire service. With a job and family now its hard to respond to calls sometimes let alone run here and there for classes. Really what has changed? We still gear up get on the truck and put the wet stuff on the red stuff…”
Like he said, “Really, what has changed?’”
Seriously, folks. How many line of duty injuries and worse do we have to endure before this kind of mindset changes?
Don't be the next LODD. Don't be a dead firefighter walking.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
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No new insight? I guess we said it all Jack.
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Permalink Reply by truckeewads on
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Just wanted to add that "yes" you guys said it all. Especially Jack, I liked your comments about no pretend training, just because some don't want to do the extra work. You are right on...just do it, it's our job and we should never stop training or learning. Eventhough the complex trainings are essential for certain disciplines it seems we forget to just do the basics so as you suggested it will become automatic when you need it the most. Training should be real, because our job sure is.
Thanks
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Permalink Reply by Jim Wells on
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Wow, I've commented on this in a previous forum, but I really like the way you've put it "Dead Firefighter Walking". Training is essential, but will never fully prepare you for the real thing, but it's the only alternative we have, so it has to be as real world as we can make it.
I believe we need standards, state and local, but most importantly in house. I teach throughout the state, at both career and volunteer departments, and the abilities of personnel depends greatly on the mindset of leadership. Some shifts are well prepared, while others are conducting "Recliner based training" and calling it a good training day. On a department level, some provide the minimum required, while I can say 1 in particular in my area, always takes training to limit. Who is better prepared? The same can be said of volunteer departments: Those who push it, generally get results, but if their worried about losing members, losing status or not meeting ISO scene numbers, then training can suffer.
As I also serve on a combination department, I have stated before that I would rather work with 6 people trained than 30 untrained, and have ran into my own problems in-house where the mindset tends to be more is better. I continue to fight this fight, and think you have stated the right approach for upper management. "Do you want to be responsible for the next LODD". I think the Police have it right; anytime an officer goes down, it's a crime scene.
Thanks for giving me a voice. Jim
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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on
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I have a button that I sometimes wear around the station, it says this:
"An employer once asked "What if I train my people and they leave"? I replied "What if you don't, and they stay"?"
I think that sums it up quite nicely.
That being said, I do respect the seniority and experience of long time members. I would actually love to have some of them teach drills, not just attend them. I can understand that they may not come to every drill that is offered, but if there is a minimum standard set they need to meet it. When setting minimum standards we do need to make sure that they are reasonable and reachable.
I friend in EMS in another state was complaining, because there is a set number of hours of CME's he needs a year. Currently the state reimburses his dept. for all training. There is a move to only reimburs them for the minimum number of hours. His complaint is that because of all the mandatory topics, BBP, NIMS, ect. there is little or no time left in the minimums for real EMS training. He is of the feeling that if the state is no longer paying for additional training, that many dept.'s will not send members beyond the minimum.
I have recently been involved in a debate with a fellow training officer about minimum hours. I favor an annual requirement, so that members have plenty of opportunity to meet the requirement. He favors a quarterly requirement to ensure ongoing participation. I favor a smaller total number of hours, but encourage people to exceed the minimum, he favors a larger number of hours but doesn't think that members should feel pressured to exceed the minimum once it is set.
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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on
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Alan, while it always end up being the "minimum" I feel that the number of training hours needs to be enough to actually ensure that skills are being taught and maintained. Whatever your department feels that number is, that should be the target.
I think that breaking it down quarterly makes the most sense since you can track a member's participation and keep them from falling behind. Key here is that drills are tracked and documented and members are required to make up lost training.
The problem with missed drills is that if they are made up, the make up tends to be (far) less than what would have been received at the company/department training level. One has to wonder then if the make-up is nothing more than going through the motions and if so, how valid is it and is it really even worth the effort.
Tracking training on an annual basis could mean that it may not be until month 10 or 11 that the TO realizes that member x has missed a considerable amount of training. If they haven't been able to make training throughout the year due to time constraints how will they be able to make up all that they've missed, with the same time constraints? I think quarterly requirements allows the TO to track and maintain training level easier.
Better yet is posting everyone's status in the fire houses so that everyone is aware of the requirements and where everyone else stands. Sometimes peer pressure is the best inducement.
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I alluded to this thread and your post in the "tranning" thread....maybe there could be some more comments. :-D
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Permalink Reply by FireDaily.com on
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Thanks, John. More eyes, more thoughts...
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I have heard the idea of posting everyone's totals before, from both in and out of my department. My concern with this would be confidentiality rules. I know that as an instructor I can not put someones scores up for all to see, but as a training officer can I put how far or close to meeting a standard someone is? I don't know, but it seems like that might be the same thing.
As for the requirements, the training officers can track them on a more frequent basis, but I think that it creates a problem if you make a requirement you know many members can not meet, then allow make up training (which, as was pointed out, is often less than what it replaces). By making the requirement annual, and issuing frequent (as needed) reminders to those who are in danger of not meeting the requirement, we can hopefully prevent someone from falling too far behind.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Bowen on
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I know its getting harder and harder for many volunteers to meet the ever expanding and changing training requirements. Its such a comitment on your part and its going to continue to expand. Volunteer Departments play a vital role for so many areas and most are rural. They will continue to do so well into the future. Many do a excellent job, but some really are an accident waiting to happen. Its the Officers of these departments that need to implement SOG's to protect the volunteers that don't have the time to train as much as others. They need to fill the support roles. If your going do perform interior fire fighting you must have trained fire fighters. If not, someone will be hurt or worse. This is an ever changing industry, construction, fuels, etc...You have to train on shift, at drill, when ever you can to keep up. This old school mentality has got to go before more brothers and sisters do...Be Safe
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