Junior FFN

Hello and welcome to what appears to be becoming the "Junior" FFN webpage!

Since my return I have noticed that there seems to be a plethora of postings that seem to have "junior", explorer, cadet or some other term of minority in them. Although I appreciate that everyone gets their start somewhere, and I have learned that obviously a great number of fire departments represented here on these hallowed pages use "juniors" to supplement their 'seniors'? , I can not believe how many postings there suddenly are with JUNIORS involved and to be quite frank the number of juniors that seem to have "tude" about it...

Whats the next posting.....Barney teaches ropes and knots...Dora Explorer holding a class on fire control, and today we will be using real water kids...Tonight after hours, (7:00 p.m.) we will gather upstairs for a showing of high school musical/the firefighter years...Should juniors be allowed to "skate" or scooter to the call?

I mean cmon here.....First off if your not 18.....You aint a firefighter. Junior, explorer, cadet whatever....not FIREFIGHTER...like I told one young man in here on his post..I appreciate your interest and wish you well...but when you put "junior" in front of anything...it is still JUNIOR!!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on November 9, 2009 at 8:40pm

Jeff I must have missed that one...That is OUTSTANDING!!!!

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Permalink Reply by Alan Shaw on November 9, 2009 at 9:29pm

OK, my department does have Juniors, and they are not used to replace firefighter. That is a frightening thought at best. Although I have heard the same attitudes expressed live, that we see inundating this site. I am not sure if it is a generational thing or not, but it is certainly a problem.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Montpetit on November 9, 2009 at 9:34pm

Hey is outstanding allright....When Firefighters are inside he will be outstanding by rehab waiting....(Jr that is).......Paul

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Permalink Reply by Loyd Dittfurth on November 9, 2009 at 10:04pm

well we were all there once

Not me of course though

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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on November 9, 2009 at 10:16pm

Actually WE were not all there. I was a fully trained reserve firefighter working 1 24 hour shift per week and then was hired into the "ranks" as a firefighter.

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Permalink Reply by Jack/dt on November 9, 2009 at 11:04pm

Jake, the way I see it is this, today's kids think they are the equal of any adult, an attitude that has been honed over the years by schools too afraid to discipline them, parents that quickly side with their 'precious', who of course just simply could NOT be at fault and who themselves fail to discipline them. Moreover, just reading some of their posts gives me brain damage trying to discern what they're saying, if in fact it's even in english.

It's all well and good that VFD's have their cadet/junior/explorer programs, it shows the students a possible career/community service path. But apparently no one explain to them (or not clearly enough) that they are children and not firefighters.

Me personally, I really don't give a damn what your fire department calls you or thinks of you, in every instance they are governed - and will be judged by - Federal Child Labor Laws, OHSA Regulations and NFPA Standards (Industry Best Practices). Even with the best of intentions and no matter the gray area, if a child is injured or killed while acting in any capacity as a firefighter the department, its Chief and some (at least) of its Officers are going to be in serious trouble.

The above being said, if you are under the age of 18, you are not a firefighter. When you are18 and complete NFPA FFI requirements then you are a probie in your department and are earning your right to be called a firefighter. Until then, please ride in the bus and sit quietly.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on November 9, 2009 at 11:18pm

The role of an explorer, junior, cadet etc really comes down to OBSERVE and LEARN.

There are too many proven firefighters out there doing this job for real and never once got a start as a jr, explorer, etc. There is NO reason anyone should be taken out of school to go on a call. There is NO reason for a kid to do any type of firefighting to "learn" the job. Those proven firefighters show that one can be a successful FF without having to be a jr/explorer first.

I have nothing against such programs if governed properly. There is much which can be learned and to find out if FF would be a career choice in the future, but in no way should these kids do any type of FF until the ripe ol' age of 18 (min). If you are not old enough to vote, or enlist in the military, you are not old enough to be fighting fires....of any type.

I also started as an explorer and am still an advisor for our post. Our guys are there to observe and learn.

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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on November 10, 2009 at 12:32am

In a way I do understand the attitudes. The only thing I don't understand is why they aren't being put in check by the fire depts. that have accepted them. I started out at 16. My father was a firefighter on my hometown dept. for 23 yrs. I had only 2 instances when I had to be put in check for running my mouth between the ages of 16 and 18. It's called respect (oh God, I'm only 29 and that made me feel old!!!) Kids, if you want to be treated like a firefighter then ask questions that you could actually learn something from. We don't care about POV lights, helmet colors, truck colors, or juniors responding to calls or being allowed to participate in live fire eviolutions. I'm not talking to all of you but the ones who have an attitude towards the seasoned firefighters. If this is how you show respect maybe you should find a different line of work. In this business you want as many brothers and sisters as you can to help you out when you need it most.