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Permalink Reply by Ed on October 23, 2009 at 11:19pm

I suppose I can see both sides of this discussion.. I completely understand the department being on the hook for his medical bills and for lost wages, etc.. But 13 million dollars? Say it with me M-I-L-L-I-O-N (MILL E ON).. Is that just a nice round figure that they come up with? Come on man, if I fell down the pole tower and seriously hurt myself, I would absolutely be pissed at both myself and the department. But having said that, if I'm the dude that fell down the tower, I'm not sure my first thought would be to file suit against the department for more than I would EVER be worth. Hell, if he had died in the line of duty his family wouldn't have recieved that much money. COME ONE.. Someone help me understand this.. I don't do this job because I have too, I do this job because I love it and breaking it off in my department's ass because of a dumb mistake on my part is ludacris as far as I'm concerned..

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Eichenlaub on October 23, 2009 at 11:21pm

That is ridiculous.... who would pay that much to a firefighter that falls down the hole he had known was there..... Paying enough to cover medical bills is fine but 13 million is way too much.....

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 23, 2009 at 11:35pm

Reg, have you ever worked in a career firehouse? I have been in several and have never once seen this "hand holding" showing someone where everything was, especially if you have been on the job for awhile. There may have been some informal tour at one point, but the fact remains the guy was temporarily assigned to a different firehouse, gets up to go to the bathroom and falls down the pole because that door is close to the bathroom, I can see that happening.

As for signage, now you are only making complete assumptions, doesn't matter if there were signs or not, the fact still remains the city had a similar accident in the past, in the same damn house, and should have done something then. Again, this is the middle of the night in a firehouse which should be safe and such injuries should not happen. As I have pointed out before, when nature calls, how awake are you really? This isn't that the tones went off, it is easy to awake at night, half asleep, to use the bathroom and there should not be a door to an opening close to the bathroom without some type of rail.

As for your analogy about running into a fire without PPE, that is completely absurd and quite ridiculous. Number one, you should know better because of training and because of department SOG's. Number two, the door to a pole, where another FF fell before, should have had railings or barriers in place. You want to say it is common sense, well then hot damn, common sense would mean the city should have learned from the past expierence and have precautions in place so this wouldn't have happened.

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Permalink Reply by Oldman on October 23, 2009 at 11:45pm

I certainly think he was entitled to compensation due to the negligence of the city. 13M just sounds like a bit much. One would have had to hear the testimony during the trial to really make an informed decision on what his damages should be. Not having been there, I do question some of what is being reported.

There is no denying that Jones suffered serious injuries.
There is no question that there was negligence by the department and city.
It is conceivable that he could have been "half asleep" and went into the wrong door.
I would agree he would have medical expenses. So far, I have no problem.

But the story is; he is "unable to work". Now this is where I start questioning. Unable to work as a firefighter, or unable to work at anything? There is a lot of difference. I didn't read any article where it said he was a quadriplegic, or bedridden, unable to sit stand or walk. Granted it would be a given he could never fight fires again, but I would question that he could do nothing. The city offered to settle for an unknown amount. We don't know what that offer was but, unless it was substantially less than the jury award, one might question the motivation for going to trial.

Obviously, the plaintiff (Jones) presented a better case and proved by a preponderance of the evidence, that the award was justified. Obviously, the jury agreed.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 23, 2009 at 11:46pm

Problem again is that the city should have learned from the last incident when someone else fell down the same hole, the city must not have thought FF safety was a priority before this another occurance down the same hole.

13 million, yeah, so what. I see more people caught up in the figure than the facts at hand. Ed, you say this was a dumb mistake, sure, but the city also made a huge mistake and should have known better. You also say if this was you, you wouldn't sue the same and so forth. OK, are you willing to take a chance on ending your career by falling down the pole hole? Is it easier to sit back, in good health, and say what is or isn't what your life is worth? Pretty easy to sit there and say what one would or wouldn't do given the same circumstances.

Well the way I see it, the city put barriers up around poles in stations that didn't have them to prevent a similar occurance. I have seen other departments learn from such mistakes and remove poles all together. The city experienced a similar occurance in the past and refused to learn from it, now they did and propably took a nice big chunk of money from the pocketbook for them to listen. Unfortunate, but better than read that another FF was seriously injured because the city found it cheaper to just pay off than learn from the mistakes.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 23, 2009 at 11:53pm

Said the kid out of HS. Looks like you are going into the USAF for FF, good for you, but right now it is easy to make assumptions without knowing the story. It is also easy to feel invincible at your age too. Being young, how much is your life worth to you? Try to think that you get injured because you didn't pay attention to detail in the military and find you can't ever do the things you once did. Try to think that you will never be able to do this job anymore because of a mistake.

See I also served and understand the military lifestyle, and know that the military has learned from past injuries and occurances. The city here apparently didn't. Maybe if you were a career FF and have an understanding of how things work, you may have a different opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Rick K. on October 23, 2009 at 11:55pm

sounds to me the DUMMY is the one who designed the station ?Every station i've been in has a rail around the pole so things like that dont happen.

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Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on October 24, 2009 at 12:01am

Jones said he suffered fractures to five lower-back vertebrae and had lung, bladder and liver injuries.
Because of his injuries, Jones has not been able to return to work, Kilpatrick said. He tried working part time in office clerical jobs with the Fire Department, but even those were too difficult, Kilpatrick said.Kilpatrick said Jones still suffers breathing difficulties, the result of complications of his lung injury, along with chronic pain, and he has not recovered from the head injury.
Jones will never be able to return to work of any kind, Kilpatrick said.

I wondered about the work thing too Oldman, but it does look like he has tried working in the past, but unable to without difficulty. I also agree the plaitiff probably made a much better case, especially when the city should have learned from a previous incident.

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Permalink Reply by Rusty Mancini on October 24, 2009 at 12:10am

I think the jury was sending a message to the city. You should of learned a lesson from the first time! The 13 million was clearly the message, and the firefighter benefited from it! If you or anyone else were awarded 13 million in the same scenario, I'd bet you wouldn't turn it down, or would you? " Now that would be a dummy!"

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Permalink Reply by walt on October 25, 2009 at 3:08pm

Ok here is the OSHA standard...... All pole openings are to have a barracade of some sort with a gate to open to the outside (meaning one would have to pull the gate to them to open). The city is deffently at fault for not making the corrections after the 1st accident. The only dummies here are the city.

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Permalink Reply by FETC on October 25, 2009 at 5:50pm

I believe in court it is called, negligence... pre-knowledge of a safety hazard in which could be fixed or corrected before an accident, injury or death occurs. The 1976 case sets the tone and fault clearly on the municipality.

Kudos to the brother for standing up for his personal loss

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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on October 25, 2009 at 6:28pm

I've not spent any time in career houses, but my understanding is that it is a known fact that poles are dangerous. There have been many firefighters hurt, and some killed, either free-falling or landing too heavily on the floor when sliding.

Most, if not all new fire house designs are single story to eliminate the need or temptation to install a pole.

The city should have recognized this as a danger after the first time, and put the appropriate safety measures in place.

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