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Ten Minutes in the Street: Report of Smoke in the Residence
You’re responding to a reported structure fire with a report of smoke in the residence. The occupant has reported they have an odor of smoke in the house and can’t locate the source. The occupant stated to the call taker that they first noticed the odor shortly after the heavy thunderstorm passed through the area, about fifteen minutes ago. They looked through the house, but nothing could be found.
As you arrive on scene, the dispatcher tells you that the caller stated the odor is getting much stronger and that there’s a slight “haze” present in the house. Well, after either getting out of your chief’s vehicle or as you are peering out of the officer’s cab window, you observe what could be best described as; “smoke showing” from the roof area. Yes indeed, there is a “haze” present you think…
The residence is sited on a slight hill, and is located in new residential neighborhood of homes built in the last eighteen months. The house appears to be somewhere between 5000-7500 square feet in size and is a two story wood frame (Type V). It has a large layout floor plan and there are three cars in the driveway. The response area is not adequately hydranted. This is predominately an area that the water services have not caught up to the construction growth and expansion. There is a slight breeze that is beginning to kick back up. Another storm front might be pushing in. The balance of the alarm response is coming (the response is what you typically have in your jurisdiction, along with company level staffing).
So... you’re on-scene as either the first-due chief or as the first-due engine, in either case, you are the incident commander.
• What’s your move?
• What are you confronted with?
• SUG: What’s the severity, urgency and growth potential for this incident?
• What are the KEY operational issues that you are confronted with and need to address in quick order as you formulate, develop and implement for your incident action plan (IAP)?
• What are some of the operational considerations that will impact your strategic and tactical objectives?
• Looking at the house; what are the construction, fire load/occupancy load and layout considerations, risk and demands.
Oh, incidentally, as you’re keying the mic to transmit your first communications and assignment, you observe visible fire now present in the roof line…..
If you're the Engine, the first line is being deployed up the Alpha side lawn from the street. If you're the chief, the first-due engine arrived behind you and is stretching a 1.75 inch line up the front lawn...you now are ready to transmit......
…. Is that thunder I hear in the background?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Car-10 on
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Fuck those rich assholes,i say let it burn they have enough money to buy a new one.
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Permalink Reply by FETC on
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To most understaffed departments this is a born loser. If the picture depicts the timeline of the first due engine or truck, I believe the fire is in the attic already and not just on the exterior roof. We have fire at a lower eve/soffit as well as across the top of the ridge pole, under RECEO the life safety aspect is the major concern. Both for potential civilians and my firefighters.
Marginal Mode: Going offensive anticipating to go defensive when the roof deteriorates. Stretching a line to protect the primary means of egress, attempt to assist with evacuation of the building, searching a 7000 sq ft residential mansion can be done quickly as if this is truly an outside lightning strike type fire, conditions interior will remain favorable for some time. But the thunder can be a trap for a true, un-noticed attic fire until it broke out.
This a STRUCTURE FIRE, meaning the structural components are burning and being a LIGHTWEIGHT Type V (built to fall down structure) risk verse gain. risk verse gain.
Hope for the best.......... residential sprinklers!
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Permalink Reply by Chief Dino on
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We have one or two of these McMansions in our area and as far as I know none sprinklered. These would be an automatic surround and drown mostly due to our long response time. An automatic mutual aid call from the neighboring department for manpower and tanker shuttle. This would be an absolute nightmare for our department.
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Permalink Reply by Smoke Eater on
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Wow!!! Way to be Car-10!!!
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Permalink Reply by Michael C. Harrison on
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You are going to completely stop operations on a house fire (or building fire) until a storm passes, then resume operations?
Just askin'
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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If the storm is bad enough, absolutely I'd stop operations. If there are frequent lighting hits in the immediate area, that's an immediate life threat to firefighters and risking them for a house that's been searched doesn't pass the basic risk-benefit test.
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The ones I have went to they are usually unoccupied because the house shook and people went looking to check on damage control, found the fire, called 911 and evacuated to the car in the driveway. So even in this scenario the place will be most likely evacuated unless you get some rich a-hole that knows everything about everything and decides to remain inside to call.
The residential sprinkler would definately buy a rural (shorthanded department) or the excessively long response times of a very rural department the luxury of knowing the fire in the attic had or has some initial slowing suppression.
I personally can't believe that if anyone here allows million dollar matchbox McMansions to be built without sprinklers is simply sad. These people spend more money on that lawn or shrubs than the cost of the sprinkler system. They cost about 1.66 per square foot. Less than the granite or corian countertops in that friggin kitchen.
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I am not advocating letting it burn. But given the construction what are you saving in essence? Nothing other than belongings. These are not going to be rebuilt. Chief I hear you on the life safety thing but here is a thought. The minute I let one of my guys in the building we now have a known life safety issue again.
Keep a good hold on the risk management side because that roof is ready to fall down about the time most arrive to start an interior attack from inside... and how long does it really take to make the third floor of a mansion, and do you have the experience to read, the confidence in your men to report conditions are detoriating to pull the retreat early enough to afford all your men will make it back out from the third.... these are a whole different monster as compared to a ranch or small cape.
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WOW....is that YOUR policy, or is that a Department policy?
One other question...do you also stop operations on car accidents/extrication's until storms pass?
Just askin'
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It's at Incident Commander discretion, just as with any incident safety issue.
I have never personally stopped an operation at a fire due to lighting, but I've seriously considered it a couple of times. Fortunately, the storms passed so quickly that we were able to continue the operation without undue risk.
Vehicle crashes are a different story...if there are patients present, we're likely going to continue the operation, due to having a life safety factor that's not present on an attic fire in an otherwise evacuated house.
Our overriding policy is that 1) we don't require our people to commit suicide and that 2) we make strategic decisions based upon risk-benefit assessments, regardless of the incident type. I know, I know - it's shocking that I'd value my troops lives more than a seriously damaged house, but there you have it.
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It's at Incident Commander discretion, just as with any incident safety issue.So, it is NOT your Departments policy to stop emergency operations due to storms......thanks for the answer.
I have never personally stopped an operation at a fire due to lighting, but I've seriously considered it a couple of times. Fortunately, the storms passed so quickly that we were able to continue the operation without undue risk.Wow
Vehicle crashes are a different story...if there are patients present, we're likely going to continue the operation, due to having a life safety factor that's not present on an attic fire in an otherwise evacuated house.So, during a storm you are going to have your members operate outside and in/around metal vehicles.......yet you are going to remove them from a wood frame house and have them sit in apparatus till the storm passes? I am just trying to get this right and understand what you are saying....if the weather is that big of a safety issue, I would think that operating outside in the elements and around vehicles would be significantly more dangerous than operating on the second floor of a house (but what would I know.....due to the recent "hot Topic" sprinkler demo and all that)
Our overriding policy is that 1) we don't require our people to commit suicide and thatsucks that you would need to have that as a policy, you would hope that people would have a bit more common sense (any chance I could get an official copy of that policy?) 2) we make strategic decisions based upon risk-benefit assessments, regardless of the incident type.wow, you would think that all officers and incident commanders would have enough knowledge to do this without having a policy written....but I guess not I know, I know - it's shocking that I'd value my troops lives more than a seriously damaged house, but there you have it.What is shocking to me is that you would first say that you would stop all emergency operations on a attic fire in a house due to weather (for the safety of your members of course) yet you would have them risk their lives (but not break the anti-suicide policy) on an auto accident in that same stormy weather.....I am just trying to figure out what side of the fence you are on.
I eagerly await a reply.....hopefully there will be an answer or two, (maybe even some reasoning as to the "relative safety " of being inside a house on fire during the storm VS. the "unsafe" yet acceptable operations during a vehicle crash during that same storm,) between all the attempted bull baiting about my department/my views/my opinions......but we shall see
have a great one!
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You just love to misquote things, don't you, Mike? For starters, I didn't say that I "would" stop all operations on a house fire in a lightning storm, I said that I have considered it but that it wasn't necessary. Those are two very different things...for those that have the power of discernment. There is also the intermediate option of using unmanned master streams to fight the fire until the storm passes.
"Relative safety" of being inside a burning house or on the roof, when the structure has a truss roof and a fire in the truss void?? You have a really strange idea of what "relative safety is" when I'd put the firefighters in the apparatus. Now I suppose that you'll tell me that sitting in a parked fire apparatus is more dangerous than being inside a burning house with the potential for a truss collapse.
As for operating at a vehicle crash, getting a patient out of a wrecked vehicle takes a couple of minutes, and in a storm with nearby lightning, that removal would become a rapid extraction operation. Working a vehicle wreck in the street during a storm isn't exposing the troops to anywhere near the risk in a combined fire/lightning storm/potential collapse of the house fire poses.
The Time/Distance/Shielding factor comes in to play, too. It takes a lot more time to fight a single family McMansion fire than to slide a patient onto a spineboard and stretcher and get them into a nearby ambulance.
The people working a wreck in the street are not going to be the highest point and the most exposed to the lighting, while firefighters in the photo of the house above are definately in an exposed position.
Two minutes of risk to rapidly rescue a patient is a lot more of an acceptable risk than thirty minutes of exposure to fight a fire where no civilian lives or exposures are issues.
And..."bull baiting"??? You throw up Charleston in this conversation and then accuse me of bull baiting?? Now there's a little irony for the bystanders. LMAO.
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