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Exposure Hose Lays
Hello all, we are discussing options to allow faster deployment of exposure lines without crippling an engine by taking up a pre-connected line solely with an Akron Ozzie that was bought by the Chief. Does anyone have any SOG's for exposure lines? Does anyone have the same situation and a good solution? Any feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all!!!
Casey
Casey
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mikey B on
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We have two rear discharges (3") on all our engines. Attached to one of them is 200 feet of 2.5 with a fog nozzle. Under this "pre-connected" lay, ther remains 400 feet of dead laid 2.5. The other rear discharge sits idle and can be used to connect the second line to the FDC if needed. The 2.5 is used with a 1.75 to "dump the tank" as fast as possible on say a garage fire. Blitz fire's are in this year's budget, but given the state of the economy, likely won't be able to purchase this year.
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I see your point on an interior exposure, it's a valid one, but one could also view that interior exposure under confinement, as in the room of origin. It depends on how aggressive your department/officers are.
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Permalink Reply by Todd on
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No SOG, primarily because pulling an exposure line should be pretty much common sense.
We've got our Blitzfire in one of the rear preconnect wells, so we were able to adjust the hose bed to where it would fit. Perhaps if your engine has rear preconnects you could make the same adjustment.
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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I don't see it that way Jay, deploying a specific piece of equipment to protect exposures (in this case a different building I would think) doesn't mean that the fire has been written off as a loss. The OiC is simply following RECEO - trying to stop that 'house next door' from also going up.
As about the only thing we have that could be called a 'preconnect' would be our high pressure reel (which doesn't get used very often on building fires), I can't see any problem with storing the "Ozzie" in one of the compartments. It's what we do all the time. The attack team will grab a branch and the first couple of folds of hose from a flaked bin and go, the pump operator breaks the hose if needed and fits it to an outlet.
For those people who are used to having all hoses assembled ready to use, I can see that the idea of storing items in a compartment seems 'wrong', but it can work very nearly as quickly. Just train with it for that specific purpose. We used to have a branch (nozzle as they are called in North America) attached to one of our larger hoses. We realised that as we most often use that size hose for feed, there was no need to have it stored as an attack line - when needed we will grab the fitting and attach it.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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The Capt. I was talking to considers the 'Ozzie' a defensive nozzle. Pre-connecting a defensive nozzle isn't something that would be used often. This is for a paid dept. with a whole lot of resources being dispatched on a 1st alarm. Store the Ozzie and use it when appropriate.
My personnel opinion, I like having a 2.5 as a pre-connect but used offensively.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Dalgarno on
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I agree that if the hose doesn't get used regularly, there's no need to pre-connect it.
Example: We only have two pre-connects on our current pumper.....and they are both 1.5"!!! We only carry 1100 gallons on board and there are no hydrants, so when it runs out, we either leave to find water, or wait for a mutual aid tanker. There's no point in setting up a 2.5" line and emptying the tank in 5-10 minutes.
Andrew
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Permalink Reply by B.L.P.S. 13 on
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I'm going to take a stab at this one. I am in no way trying to dictate what you should or shouldn't do. Just adding a different prespective to this discussion. Currently, I am bored at work and kind of stumbled upon this and thought I'd throw my two cents in.
My initial thought, when I happened upon this thread, was, if you are pre-planning "exposure lines", you've probably already lost the battle. I'm not sure if this discussion is geared more towards rural firefighting, but to be completely honest, my understanding of the term "exposure line" is another inch and a half line from from an engine company not committed to something already. The only time this is employed is when things are totally beyond the point of useful interior operation. An example being the roof has collapsed, walls falling in, etc.
It seems, after reading most of these posts that there is a common theme to include this exposure protection in the initial push. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are more important issues at hand in the incipient phases of a working operation. The rule of thumb I generally use is, fire doubles in size every thirty seconds. I've never been confused with a mathmatecian, so don't hold that equation to be absolute. The point I am trying to make is, the faster you get water onto a fire, the quicker it will go out and the faster the emergency is contained.
It is a simple theroy which works wonders if employed efficiently and correctly. The Engine Company I will describe in this post is set up purposely simple to serve one purpose. It puts out fires, from the inside, on a regular basis. The attack lines of our rear hose bed consist of a 400' pre-connected 1 1/2" line, 250' pre-connected 1 1/2" line, and a bundle load line. The bundle load consists of 800' of 2 1/2" connected to a 150' 1 1/2" "bundle via a swivel reducer. The only other attack lines are contained in either side of the front bumper. Each is 150' 1 1/2" in a horseshoe/donut configuration.
Each of the attack lines I have described above are designed to be deployed quickly and easily. With the exception of the 400' and the 650' 1 1/2" lines, the rest can easily be deployed by one fireman. The 650' is done by combining the 400' and 250' lines. The "bundle load" is not generally used as a first choice attack line, but comes in very handy when going to the rear or passing a fire before the hydrant.
The bottom line is fast, aggressive, interior firefighting is the simple solution tho the exposure problem. 1 1/2" hose is light and very manuverable when compared to larger diameter hose which makes it the most effective attack line when employed by trained firemen. A well trained fireman with an inch and a half handline can put out much more fire than an entire team of people on a larger hose line. The key is drilling and training and drilling some more.
Running lines is the most important thing the Engine Company can train on. That is what they will have to do in an emergency so the more you train with them the easier it will be come game day. Your Engine Companies should be running lines, daily if possible, through every scenario you could ever think of coming upon with the types of buildings you protect. Proficency and perfection should be preached for every stretch. It is the simplest of Firefighter 1 tasks for the Engine Company, but it is often the most overlooked and unpracticed. Trust me drilling on running lines seperates the guys who put out fires from the guys who are stuck in the stairwell with a coupling under door and the guys who stretch short. Everyone wants to put fires out, so don't become complacent in your strecthing drills.
In conclusion, Training and drilling will get you inside faster, which will allow you to get water on the fire quicker, which will ultimately turn those "exposure lines" with their fancy portable monitors attached to them, into neat little decorations on the back steps of your apparatus.
Just food for thought. Stay Safe.
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Permalink Reply by Casey Byron Snyder on
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Thanks man, I completely agree, and while my father is a Task Force Tips dealer and I pushed for that very portable monitor, it didn't come to pass. Interesting point about fixing the two inlet deluge gun to the rear tailboard... we'll look into that. Thanks for the imput, have a great day, be safe!
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Cole on
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"13" I gotta disagree. Exposure protection, and exposure lines, or set-ups are vital, and do mean that your limited to defensive attack, and that you have lost the fire. A preconnected monitor set between an exposure and a fire building in which an offensive interior attack is taking place can prevent the almost always losing endeaver of playing catch-up. It can take only one firefighter a minute to pull a preconnected monitor, set it up and get water flowing to it in a position to wash an exposure.
I have to question a 400' preconnected 1.5" line. Basic hydraulics tells us this is beyond the maximum length of an 1.5" line's effectiveness due to to the high friction loss. 300' has long been identified as the maximum suggested length for a hose lay of 1.5, to 1.75" hose. Even with (hopefully) a smooth-bore nozzle, this can be excessive.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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"A well trained fireman with an inch and a half handline can put out much more fire than an entire team of people on a larger hose line." ??????
Sorry, the laws of physics dictate otherwise.
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Do what you like with your "exposure lines". After your newest statement, I don't even feel like entertaining that arguement.
Too much friction loss?
NP+FL+/-E=EP
Friction loss for 1 1/2" hose is estimated at 30psi per 100'.
Regular fog nozzle NP= 100psi
250' 1 1/2" FL= 75psi
EP= 175psi
This is how we pump our 250' rear pre-connect.
Low pressure fog nozzle NP= 75psi
400' 1 1/2" FL= 120psi
EP= 195psi
This is how we pump our 400' rear pre-connect.
Low pressure fog nozzle NP= 75psi
650' 1 1/2" FL= 195psi
EP= 270psi
This is how we pump the 650' attack line. (400' attack line and 250' attack line combo)
All these are basic equations not taking any advantage of intake pressures. Our general orders state the maximum pump pressure is 300 psi. Not sure what kind of restraints you are operating under, but if you think theses pressures are too high, you might want to buy a new calculator.
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Read the reply above to understand my feelings on your misconceptions about friction loss and 1 1/2" attack lines.
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