The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
RIT or On Deck
Hi All, I just came back from an officers meeting and we were told we are switching from RIT to On Deck for fire ground operatons. We have done RIT for the last seven years. What are your feelings on the On Deck approach. We were given just the basics on it with more training to follow.
Paul
Paul
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Padre Pete on
-
"On Deck" was news to me too. Thanks to Cody for the explanation. Got to dig into it some more. Here I helped develop a county wide Technical Rescue Team that also fulfills FAS Team needs. Basically because no department has the luxury of enough manpower to commit its own interior firefighters and its best trained specialist to be on stand-by-just-in-case mode instead of fighting fire. The team is comprised of most of this areas most extensively trained technicians and rescue people. So RIT is provided, not from within but through automatic mutual aid. Its is still a work in progress but gov grants have been good to us and the team is super well equiped for its tasks. On the surface, I can definetly see tsome merit in the "On deck" approach. It seems to address some up-front issues directly. Does anyone know any down sides from experience? Thanks for sharing. Keep up the good work. You never go in alone.
-
Permalink Reply by Paul Everson on
-
This was just presented to us last night, so my knowledge of it is limited to your comments and what I have found on line today. I think the Chief was looking at our reactions when he mentioned it. I believe it may also cover over-haul. I guess I will have to wait and see what sort of training we have presented to us.
-
Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
-
Interesting concept. But not sold on it
-
Permalink Reply by Kirk D. Baughman on
-
so why are they doing away with your RIT? i can see good and bad things with both RIT and On Deck approachs. with RIT how many people you have on fire scenes?
-
Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
-
There are variations on this that are reasonable and safe that include a work cycle of 20 minutes to 25 minutes, depending on what you're doing. It also includes a SCBA cylinder that holds more air than a 2216 PSI cylinder, followed by mandatory rehab the first time.
The 10-minute rule has some weaknesses, too. One is that if you have a 12-minute task, the crew gets arbitrarily pulled off task just because they've been working for 10 minutes. That is a morale buster for the troops, especially if it's invoked at every fire. Another problem with this system is the difficulty in tracking each company's specific location and accountability if they're changing locations frequently, particularly if - like most departments - you use manual accountability systems. Still another problem is that conditions can change dramatically in the 10 or 15 minutes a company is taking a break, and they'll tend to re-enter with the expectations from the previous entry. If something that they can't see has changed, it can get them into serious trouble. Most importantly, if you're engaging in an interior firefight, all of the civilians have been rescued, and you're conducting multiple-rotation entries, after a rotation or two you'll be sending briefly rested companies into a potential structural collapse situation.
If you have the manpower to do both, use RIT and On Deck at the same time. In that system, On Deck is the next company to be assigned to interior operations (if appropriate) - in other words, they're the tactical reserve that keeps at least one fresh company up all the time. RIT can be staffed seperately and be used for preventative RIT - opening the Side C doors, placing ladders for secondary egress from Division 2, and other exterior functions.
-
Permalink Reply by RLFD213 on
-
To me this is a very bad idea. While I think on-deck is a good theroy and we have used it before it should not be used for R.I.T. teams. When I arrive on scene and my company gets the R.I.T. assignment we are getting a view view of the incident from just about the time the first companies arrive and start their attack so I am watching the building, keeping track of the companies and watching the incident develope. Doing on-deck for R.I.T. does not give you the oppertunity to do this. For the IC does it seem like a waste to have a company or companies stand by and "do nothing" during the incident when you look at it from my perspective I don't think so.
-
Permalink Reply by John Crabbe on
-
Being my first post on here, I will try to make this a good one. I first saw the "On Deck" approach and had a different thought than I had originally. We do practice such an approach, but do not label it as such and that can vary by who the IC is.
I like the concept of an "On Deck" approach because it does get a perspective from the first in crews to know what they may be going into if a "MAYDAY" is called, they were there and may understand the layout. It also allows for a good rotation of crews and we will take over for a RIT crew, ONLY when all members have a fresh bottle and able to take over as RIT.
I noticed a comment that this approach is a bad idea because you can not get a good view of the incident and so forth. I can see that approach, but we also train heavy in RIT and know the jobs involved and know any one of us can become RIT. Just like any other relief, you get a turnover from the other crews. The initial RIT should have such things already done like ladder placement, utilities shut off, equipment staged and so forth. For us as a relieving crew, all we would have to do is stage at the corners and perform our duties. Having already been an attack crew, you do get to learn the layout, where stairs are etc and to me, that is a much better adavantage than going in blind.
I was unfortunate enough to be on a RIT crew almost 3 years ago when we lost a firefighter. I can say from experience that no amount of training will prepare you for the emotional toll to actually hear a "MAYDAY" called and knowing the worst case scenario just happened and YOU are going in. Prepared?, no one, no dept can ever be truly prepared. Let's face it guys, we have a mentality of it doesn't happen here and when assigned to RIT, it is easy to get lazy, especially as the scene winds down. On our LODD, the RIT team just arrived on scene a minute before the "MAYDAY". Folks you are fooling yourselves if you believe you have a lot of time to prepare to go in. We never got able to do a 360, we didn't have time to stretch a line, we got on scene,, barely got the RIT gear off the truck when the "MAYDAY" was called. We learned a lot from that, we trained a lot from that and we progressed a lot from that. Because of that incident, we take "MAYDAY" and RIT very seriously and because I experienced the shitstorm of what it is like to be called upon, I take RIT extremely serious.
It is because of that incident, I will say any adavantage a RIT has before a MAYDAY is called, the better off they will be if the call does go out. If that means that rotating a RIT crew with those who just got out is better, then I do have to agree. Had I been on the initial fire attack and came out and became RIT when our MAYDAY was called, I would have known the layout, where the FF could be and egress potentials. Any adavantage we can give ourselves is paramount for the advantage that all go home.
-
-
Some departments train every member for RIT, so it doesn't matter who staffs the RIT team on those departments.
-
-
That's a tough situation for anyone to be put in. Thank you for trying to make something positive out of it.
A question about the timeline here - in most cases, if you're only 15 minutes into the incident, no crew that has been inside for even a 10-minute work period will be rotated, geared back up, and in position to act as RIT if a MAYDAY is called that early into the incident.
Some of the Phoenix studies show evidence that most MAYDAY calls occur less than 20 minutes into the incident. If this is the case, then no matter who staffs it, the RIT team will be on their initial assignment when the MAYDAY is called.
-
-
Hey John, I read your post and my heart sank as I got to your mayday incident. I agree with you from the start to the end of your post and will share it with my fellow officers. We need to stress the importance of mayday training. Thanks John for you post!!!
-
-
An additional point...if the On Deck crew has "already been on an attack crew" why didn't they just extinguish the fire before they went to rehab? On the vast majority of working fires, that's what happens.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
