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Should CPAT be made less intense so more women can pass?
There has been a lot of talk going around in the Fire and EMS field about a few women wanting to take legal action against departments because CPAT is to hard for women to pass and some even feel it is a way to keep women out of the fire service. I'm not sure if that is so because there are a lot of men who fail it also! I know women who have passed and they passed with ease! I think its a matter of how bad you really want it! I think it truely sets a fair minimum standard for men and women because it reflects the stamina and strenth needed to perform the job and not if you're male or female! What are your thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rhonda Bock on
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I dont think it should be made easier, and here are a few Women who have earned my respect by handling it pretty well I would say...Hats of to these hard working ladies! ;)
http://www.i-women.org/iforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12
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Permalink Reply by Jake Fireman on
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LOL dammit...GOT ME! No 70% for me
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Permalink Reply by John Rulli Jr. on
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When sh*ts hitting the fan old man fire is not going to go easy on anyone! If you can't pass the test maybe fightingfire isn't your cup of tea!!! I think the test shuld be the same for EVERYONE
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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Yes, my helmet is off to all female firefighters because you didn't let anything stop you! Nobody is just handed FFI and II!
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Permalink Reply by Nathan Kenyon on
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Absolutely Not! I support women in the fire service, and would even encourage it. However, they need to have the same abilities as a male firefighter if they are going to go into a building. While I'm only a Jr. right now and not able to go into the building, when I am able I don't care what sex the person behind me going into the building is; I just want to know that if I go down, they will be able to get me out, or handle any situations that we may encounter in the building.
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Permalink Reply by Deanna on
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If you want something bad enough, you ave to work for it. That is the only way to look at it.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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I can't believe that my alarm didn't go off on my computer when this discussion was posted.
IF we are defenders of FEMALES in the fire service and IF we are their only friends and supporters, then WHY would we start a discussion that singles out FEMALES as a discussion point for LOWERING standards? The title definitely baits members into taking a peek. Frankly, this horse has been dead for a while, just like the career/vollie bait fests.
The only time you CHANGE a test is when the data is flawed or the test does not fairly accomplish the end goals. You don't change it because someone didn't pass it or did, a demographic is crying foul, someone's relative didn't make it, someone donated a lot of money to the mayor's election or for any other superfluous reasoning.
Standards for passing the test should be nationally recognized, whether it is graded on a percentile or pass/fail. Those of you concerned about "grades", let me ask you this: how many of you ask your doctor what grades he received while attending school? How many of you have asked you child's teacher about the grades THEY received? You all KNOW that someone finished LAST in the class, but received their diploma, because, although they were last...THEY PASSED.
I don't mind pass/fail as much as I hate "no cut" sports or "everyone plays" policies. There has to be motivation to get better and if you get to play whether you leave it on the field or not, then we accept mediocrity and failure.
I will get off of my soapbox, by saying that, unless you want a fight with race, gender or religious groups, you may want to ask the simple question without targeting a group. THAT may unfold as the discussion progresses or digresses.
There are those in the fire service or who are wanting to get into the fire service who will do whatever they can, including using their physical/ethical/moral/religious attributes to gain an edge or even steal the test or answer sheets.
Look at what is going on in Connecticut right now with the firefighter reverse discrimination lawsuit. The city threw out the test when only white candidates passed the promotions test. Then the white firefighters sued. I hope they win for one reason and one reason only; because it was a fair test, they passed it and then were denied their promotion. It has NOTHING to do with race.
And that isn't about just women in the fire service, so you probably don't have anything to say about that.
I don't blame women for being upset with your suggestion. I blame you.
Consider choosing your words for your titles more carefully next time and if you're going to Indy, we can respectfully discuss it there.
TCSS.
Art
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WP:
My point is: if the standards have been established and the "minimum" has been set that only allows the best candidates in, then we have accomplished the same thing as "grading" A, B, C, D, and F.
Additionally, firefighters establish very quickly through their action or inaction where they were in the mix.
I agree that we should have standards. Grades? I'm open to it, but not completely sold.
Anyone who excels beyond the "minimum" set in the pass/fail will most likely distinguish themselves as future officer/leaders. An "A" doesn't automatically identify the best potential leader. Would you agree?
"Just getting by" has never been in my make up, which might be the reason why I am a part of our high school's hall of fame football team. And it just might be why I chose to lead my fire department. I was an average student in high school who "didn't apply himself". Teachers!
What do they know?
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by Mick Shelley on
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I agree with you on that Chief, I couldn't have said it better.
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Philly:
Are we talking about "grading" or "scoring", because they are different.
And when talking about standards and a minimum and maximum; the fire service has been very active in defining and promoting acceptable "minimum" and have rarely measured "maximum".
So, you think it's ridiculous to establish a minimum threshold and disqualify anyone who can't pass it?
TCSS.
Art
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Permalink Reply by kimmieflirts on
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if u cant do the job man or woemen u cant do the job. So as a women i say dont lower the standards, if u cant do it u cant do end of story!
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