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Drinking in the Fire House
Last week I went to lunch with some co-workers (non-FFs) and the discussion rolled around to my involvement with the FD. One of the guys said "well, you must have guys that just join the department for the drinking". This recalled to mind another comment by someone, some years back, who swore that ALL volunteer FFs drank at the station and "those who say they don't are lying".
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
In my department you might find a 6-pack or two if you look in every nook and cranny, but we really don't touch the stuff on drill night or after calls, or meetings. There just isn't stuff to touch. In the late 80s we had the converted soda machine that dispensed several brands of beer but we got rid of it because the Jr. FFs were becoming interested in the stuff.
So - what is your department policy or practice regarding alcohol in the firehouse?
NOTE: 10/16/09: I started this thread over two years ago to gather input from other volunteer firefighters on FFN as it was then. The new theme is, what steps can we take to make America's fire houses 100% dry?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tiger Schmittendorf on
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As I wrote in this discussion months ago, the inherent flaw in the reasoning for allowing/tolerating/
condoning/enabling alcohol consumption in the workplace, or allowing responders to respond with any foreign substance in them, is this: When you consume alcohol, what's the first to go? Your judgement and your inhibitions.
Your very ability to make sound judgements as to whether you're buzzed, inebriated or drunk off your ass go out the window with the first and subsequent sips. Your ability to make effective decisions as to whether you should have another beer - or you should get on the apparatus - are impaired - let alone your ability to make life saving or patient care decisions.
Forget impairment or intoxication - how about public perception?
"There is a difference between having a couple of drinks and being drunk."
There is? Not in the public's eye. Unfortunately, they lump all of us beer-drinking slob firefighters together in the same bar.
You only need to smell or appear that you've been drinking for John Q. Public to raise the red flag and your ass is in a jam. And we wonder why people have a hard time using the words professional and volunteer in the same sentence... I'm pretty sure this is where the phrase "200 years of tradition unimpeded by progress" came from.
Our job is tough enough and dangerous enough to do sober - let alone under the influence of alcohol or any other drug.
There is zero margin for error in what we do and thus there needs to be zero tolerance in every firehouse. Lives hang in the balance, the least of which are ours.
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Permalink Reply by Greenman on
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Tiger,
I think the battle ground isn't the fire departments, it's the city councils and state legislators and grant-giving organizations in the federal government.
If legislation makes it illegal for any first responder to perform their duties while under the influence, it would cover EMS, Fire and all other first responders and would make the change much more universal than department policy changes, which is patchy as quilt-work.
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Permalink Reply by Philip on
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I have been on a combination dept. for about 5 years now. We have never been allowed to have beer on our premises (unless permission has been granted by the chief for a private party from an outside party). But even then, I haven't even seen that done. I was out in Long Island, NY a few years ago visiting my aunt and uncle, and my aunt told me about a time when there were a bunch of firefighters drinking during a parade of some sorts. I was very surprised to hear this. It just doesn't seem ethical to me. It's illegal to drink and drive, so why then would we drink, and then get into a vehicle that is technically government owned and drive? That just doesn't make sense to me. So there's my two cents.
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Permalink Reply by Scarecrow on
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I would say that this is more of a societal view of alcohol than it is a problem for the fire service. Some folks cold care less if you have had a drink or two, others are highly offended. Businesses, Governments etc. have take the fail safe road and said absolutely no alcohol on premises. Yet some still allow the "two martini lunch". It's like everything in life, used in moderation there is no problem. The real issue is those who take it to excess.
I tend to use my best judgment. If I have had a drink or two I will respond. If I have had 10 or 12 I stay put. I and I alone know when I have had too much too drink. Problem with that is there are some people who can't make that judgment and feel they need to respond to everything. The other problem is that the media will sensationalize 1 FF who has an incident drunk. Just look at what happened to the Boston FD. They like to give the view that a situation where an FF shows up drunk is the norm, rather than the exception.
Facts.
Firefighters are people. Most people like to drink, some more than others.
Zero Tolerance isn't the answer. It sounds good but really has no meaning.
I guess the whole alcohol issue is just like the whole how fast to respond issue. There is an optimal solution as well as a solution that is too much and one that is too little. Some will always feel there is a problem and would prefer that responders never drink. Some will feel it is OK to respond no matter how much one drinks. Somewhere in the middle of the two extremes is the answer. Like it or not, it falls into a gray area too.
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Permalink Reply by Mary Ellen Shea on
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There's a "cowboy" culture in the fire service, paid and volunteer--where in days gone by hard drinking and hard living were the rule, not the exception.
Yes, times are changing.
The speed with which breaking news is delivered into homes (and we all know nothing travels faster than bad news) has contributed to more and more departments having a Come to Jesus moment about booze in the fire station, but that does NOT mean that it is the rule.
I'm embarrassed to admit that my own department is soaked in two inches of stale beer most of the time.
That's not to say that ALL the members are soused all the time, but enough of them are that I find myself trying to determine if it's safe for me to climb on the apparatus with them, and grateful that I'm not green-tagged yet because I sure as sh*t don't want to entrust my life to a couple of geezers who've been soaking up PBR's for four hours before the tones dropped.
The younger members of the department refrain from imbibing, but I wonder how long of an exposure to the hard drinking ways of the long-term members it's going to take before they start thinking...."well just one won't hurt".
One beer or twelve is irrelevant. If you show up on a scene with even a whiff of alcohol on your breath, in John Q. Public's eyes, you're a stinking drunk, regardless of how many you had.
If you show up on a scene with one beer or ten in your system, your sense of perception has been altered...whether YOU want to admit it or not.
My role as the FNG in my department is to keep my own nose clean and abstain when responding, during meetings, and during drills. If I have consumed alcohol socially or at home, I won't respond. My next order of business is to learn my job, pay attention and be the best firefighter I can be.
Then perhaps down the road I can work on enacting changes within my own department, but as I've said here before...I'm not climbing on a truck with someone who's been drinking.
I'll take my stand where and when I can, and hope that the chief gets it.
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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As morbid as the subject is:
I can't understand why anyone would risk their death benefits that would go to their families if they were killed in the line of duty and had substances in their system that would preclude their families from getting a substantial sum of money.
Instead, because they chose to drink or dope with their buds and then respond to a fire call, they have left their loved ones with a mountain of bills, instead of a future.
Stupid hurts and sometimes that hurt goes well beyond the person.
So, the whole drinking and responding issue will potentially: deny your loved ones death benefits, give the fire department a PR nightmare, start a lawsuit that could bankrupt your city (widow or the family of anyone hurt or killed by the firefighter's action or both) and as insignificant as it sounds, the entire fire service is once again thrown back on its effort to clean up, sober up and man up to a problem that persists.
Why don't some of them open up a juice bar and a gym and get their asses in shape for the real reason we signed up?
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Permalink Reply by Ronald Lucero (Retired) on
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Our Department policy in ZERO TOLERANCE for drinking on duty, having any kind of alcoholic oriented, medications and or liquids on department property. If your sick, you go home and are replaced. If you want to drink, that is your perrogative, but that is all done off duty, and away from department property. As being a firefighter is a high esteemed profession, we as firefighters have to make the mold and be the model to those who look at us.
How would it look if we as EMS workers have alcohol on our breath and we respond to an accident of a drunk driver. We are no better than the drunk driver, we put people lives in danger along with our crew. So to summarize, i believe that this can happen, but for our department in Utah. It is a NO NO and terms for termination.
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That's all well and good Ronald...and you make some valuable points...but my question is....as the newbie/probie/FNG/sh*thead...whatever you want to call the squeaky new member....
How do I go about affecting change in my beer soaked department without making lifelong enemies?
At this juncture everyone can chime in and say "it's not about making friends, it's about safety" and I GET that, but we also know the realities of being the new guy on the department, and life there could be extremely uncomfortable for me if I blast in there spouting rhetoric about zero tolerance.
This department has been boozing from day one (according to my sister who used to live in the village....NOW she tells me) and has a reputation for being a hardcore partying group. I'm not going to change those attitudes overnight, and they're sure as hell not going to sit up and have a revelation because I said so..... "Good Heavens Bill....what were we thinking?? Let's dismantle this bar that we just built a year ago and straighten up and fly right!". It would be nice, but that's not the real world.
I know how to CMA, and won't respond if my driver or responding members are drinking....but what steps should I be taking to start getting them thinking about the ramifications of their drinking in the station and on calls?
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Permalink Reply by James on
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My department does not allow drinking on the premises or going on runs under the influence.
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Permalink Reply by Tschida on
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no alcohol at all, they took it out in the 80s and never came back. and alot of the guys on my dept. dont even drink...
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try sending a letter to your mayor or village leader but dont tell who you are or that your on the dept. just a concerned resadent.
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Actually, I see it as some of the general public don't like it. I've seen members of the general public show up at fire scenes or after the fire with a couple of 30 packs for the guys. We are fortunate in that we have an off site clubhouse where we can have a couple and relax after the fire. There are many in the general public who still think we should be observing the rules of prohibition. Unfortunately, it is the rotten apples that get all the press.
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