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Five Minutes in the Street: First-Due Engine
Your engine is coming down the side street and you can see a black plume header in the air over some roof tops, you do not have a clear view of the house yet, as you’re about a block away. As you come around the corner of the address street you immediately observe smoke showing and flame, as you’re driver just goes past a fire hydrant. You arrive and see it’s much more than a BBQ grill.
You step out of the engine cab and around the front of the engine and take in the view from the street…..There is no one immediately present that is coming up to greet you…the balance of your company personal are getting out of the cab.
Now, based upon what your immediate street observations ; provide a narrative of what your initial radio transmission is going to communicate….Think about what needs to be said, and how it needs to be stated. Provide a narrative transcript of what your transmission will sound like.
Second item on your immediate itinerary is; what are you going to do?
What NEEDS to be done NEXT, or IN-PARALLEL?
What orders are you going to assign?
What do you need to personally do?
Followed by the usual dance card items: Risk Profile, Safety issue, needs….
….did someone say there were 24 oz. steaks and ribs on that grill….?
BTW...you were the only engine (company) assigned to this alarm on the initial dispatch.....
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Robert Owens on
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My reasoning behind it is this....now it may be flawed but It makes sense to me.
I am assuming that there are people trapped in there so in order to save them I not only have to put the fire out I have to cut it off. The 2 1/2 allows me to do both. I can make a good knock on it from the exterior and then advance it into the occupancy charged so that when I encounter fire I can hit it right now. Also with the smooth bore nozzle I can even hit the fire in the attic from the first floor cause the pentration of the stream will bring down the ceiling.
Unfortunatly we only have 3 on the engine and I could utilize the deck gun but that would delay getting to the seat of the fire and the subsequent attic fire which could impact the safety of the victims. Will the deck gun knock it down....absolutley but It will only get the fire you see and it may show itself again by the time we get our interior line charged or the fire we dont see will keep burning. With the 2 1/2 I can get 300 gpms on it inside and out and seamlessly. Thats just how I think about it.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Thanks for the explanation...this is one of those situations where it makes a big difference if you have 4 on the engine instead of 3.
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Hey no problem I am just glad it made sense at least a little bit anyway
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Permalink Reply by Moose on
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Its hard to answer these things when you are #80 something to reply! LOL Everyone has already answered the questions and basically beat it to death by now, I wish there were some way to make the other replies invisible until you have replied yourself, that would be interesting. Basically, here is what I would have said;
Report; On scene working fire in a 2 1/2 story wood frame platform residence. Requesting mutual aid, 2 additional engines, and manpower from nearest 3 departments.
Action; I will instruct my engine crew to stretch the primary line through the front door and conduct search of residence, due to the car in driveway, and start attack on fire pushing it out garage. I will conduct a 360 degree scene size up of building and property. Second in engine will establish water supply to my engine and than stretch back up line to second floor. Third engine crew will be FAST.
First Mutual aid manpower will vent roof and second floor windows, performing VES of second floor, and control utilities. Additional will stage to relieve crews.
Control run off from garage in case there is Haz-Mat, set up rehab for firefighters, have EMS respond 2 rigs, one for rehab/FAST standby and one for the scene.
You see how different things are in my area? We dont have "Alarms" that bring a set amount of resources to us, "Bang a second and third alarm dispatch". We have to request the resource from our mutual aid departments. We have 5 departments that neighbor our district directly, that can respond engines, tankers, or "Manpower" we call it, which basically is a rescue truck carrying 4-8 interior personnel packed up and ready to go to work. Our nearest mutual aid is 6 minutes out, and the farthest is 11 minutes out providing they get crews in their stations fast enough. Around me if there is a fire in a nearby town our house is usually filled with about 12-15 firefighters, in gear, trucks running before the hosting chief even calls for us, so by the time they do call us we are en route with whatever they request immediately. Its hard to explain or understand, but its how we work in my area and it works well for the most part.
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Permalink Reply by John on
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Engine 45 onscene 2 story resident flames showing 1st, 2nd floor, need to fill out the rest of the response. Unit # has command, command will be mobile.
Then I would do a 360 of the structure, and at the same time have my crew start pulling a line and going ahead and tap the hydrant depending on how far down it is. have the other crews take the handline to the front door and report back what they see inside as this may have already become defensive. If occupied have the crew do search and rescue. Alot really depends on if anyone is in the structure or not. I would also hope that the hydrant and the next due companies were not that far off as it looks like the fire is in the attic already
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Permalink Reply by SMOKEnPipesJim on
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My engine would be responding with 4 members, as soon as Heavy smoke was apparent, E-4 to dispatch we have a working fire, In the area Fill out the box, because time is the issue here Get em coming... Upon visual confirmation of More then the dispatched incident, Engine 4 is approaching the scene , we have what appears to be a 2 story single family dwelling heavy Fire showing from the garage and 2nd floor and attic space A/D /C side , Engine 4 is combat command, with taking the hydrant "west of the address" Have the 2nd due report to our apparatus and also stretch our 2nd line to the front door and go above attacking the fire and protecting the stairwell, 3nd due engine layin as well, 4th Engine RIT, rescue and trucks prepare to search and rescue we have no signs of residants but we have an exposure vehicle involved in the drive, notify EMS to scene, advise the Battalion recomend a 2nd alarm and request Safety officer, Utilities for electric and Gas, At the point, we saw the hydrant we would stop and lay in, leavinga guy to make it up and walkdown to the scene... Upon reaching the a/b corner of the building I would have the engineer stop, I would tell the firefighter to stretch an 1 3/4 Line to the front door To protect the means of egress while I made my way around doing a 360, Given the age of construction I would advise The truck to ventilate primarily the B and C side and forget the roof since its trusses according to the pre fire plan I read while responding, I would have the 3rd engine park just east of the property again allowing access to the truck(s) and stretch a 2 1/2 near the front but in safety position should the vehicle create more issues, and also a 3rd
1 3/4 to extinguish the car and once searchs were complete begin to extinguish the fire... I didnt as of yet mention it, But I typically have my engineer give me tank water while making up his supply connections and changing over, the very next thing I expect him to do is to position the deck gun so that If I find conditions warrant a blitz using the deck gun for a quick shot we would do just that.. He is also expected to keep an eye on obvious changes to the structure, any sagging fire break outs,etc and advise me of same In this senerio, Main concerns are Life Safety victims inside and overcome, keeping the interior stairs as long as possible to effect rescue and egress,before evacuating men and lines if possible given the new construction/lightweight wood truss probability/potential for collapse, Then how much fire is showing, attacking head on will drive the fire further in the attic and 1st and 2nd right inside making any hope of tenability impossible, If in the meantime the resident shows up from having a beer with his neighbor, and we learn that the wife and kids are in Parsnippny for the weekend things can go down to defcon 3 ( for us anyway) In the old days we'd have settle for a 180, we might have held the line at the stairs while myself and the hydrant man Joined the party done a quick primary search bedrooms down to the 1st floor as the line protected the stairs either way today we aremuch more safteyminded and rightfully so given we can expect at least a partial collapse anytime, given the extent of this fire itshould have happened about 5 minutes ago .. :)
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Jim,
A question for you...
"The truck to ventilate primarily the B and C side and forget the roof since its trusses ..."
Why would you vent this fire at all? It is already well autovented. Venting on the uninvolved side(s) may pull the fire through the unburned part of the house. I'm curious on your thinking here?
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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Engine X is on the scene, we have a 2 story wood-frame single family structure with heavy fire involvement on all floors that has self-ventilated and exposure to a car in the driveway. Fill the box for a first alarm assignment and add a ladder truck. Engine X will be in defensive mode and attempting to locate occupants.
Now an if... If the hydrant is close enough either back back to it or hand jack the LDH and get a supply, if not hope to god the next due gets here quick!
Back on track...Blitz this mother with the deck gun, but not so much that you push the fire through the house and run out of water. A quick pass over the garage, 2nd floor above the garage and the attic will suffice. At the same time hae next arriving crew hook the hydrant if not done so already. Pull a 2 1/2 and get ready for some quick attack if the structure is still sound enough by the time next in crews arrive. Leave room for the ladder in the event this mother goes bye-bye. Instruct the third arriving supression piece to send crew forward to advance a secodn attack line and give it hell. No ventilation needed since it is already vented. Set ladder for possible deployment (possibly even put the stick up and hook the LDH just not charged yet). Finally get a crew from the 4th engine to be RIT. You will need Safety, Ops, and IC for sure. Might also consider calling an air truck if the first box assignment does not include one.
Then re-evaluate....is it working, do we need more stuff, do we need to pull out and fire up the ladder pipe, ect.
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Ben when I wrote that aspect of the senerio I was going strickly by whatI remembered of the photo which turned out to be, Less Then I thought I did... as far as ventilation is concerned I stand by no one On the roof due to the fact that probability of truss construction is HIGH, I was considering Horizontal ventilation, on the B, C and D OF the actual wing If windows exist, and Lines are in place, Naturally we dont know If B side windows on the wing even exist.. The idea at least On my job That I can call my1st or 2nd due truck enroute , and tell them to A begin a search and also ventilate
Intelligently and in whatever manner possible, within taught perameters, is a given , that some May not have the expectation of, especially in a volunteer department with unknown manpowercoming in
Rereading the thread Itwould be easuily misconstrued and we all know better then to assume any as it could in fact cause extension in that direction, ( my Bad) , anyway After Not proofreading the post I again looked at the picture and realized a) there were No windows at any level on the D side (doah) and the attachment of the garage and room area above doesnt "seem" to be "as attached" as IT seemed at first, behnd the chimney you can see the end of the roofline and what seems to be an enclosed, when I had not realized exactly how it was configured, The idea of "cross" ventilation would depend naturally On wind speed and direction, and again The wind is out of the "right" I thought it was more OUT of Your back facing it with the front facade open and ventilated The wind could also be pushing the fire into the building and towards the unaffected areas.. I never intended to ventilate any part of the Left unaffected side at this point .. I have to say in my defense I approached this exercise as I would sitting at the oral,I know There were things I screwed up and left out, because a combat command especially in a senerio when yourfirstdue with no one behind you, Until you get em going.. and beyond that its a working command and things need to be happening (obviously) I would also say in mydefense This construction style is WAY too new
for anything in my area....
The attached pictures below are more our forte' (the last one I was driving the 1st due pump, I Took That hydrant after allowing the truck to nose in towards the driveway across the streetas your looking at it, another example of tactics of waiting 30 seconds longer for the truck , yes we used a blitz of about 600gallons and lines in both the fire floors and the expoure building to the rear) - Attachments:
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Dewey an Poplar IMG_1007.jpg, 74 KB
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Permalink Reply by NOVAFireman on
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Once again Chris, you have another great post. I live in the same box area as this house. How do you keep finding fires in my area??? Here's a look at the aftermath of this fire.
Provide a narrative transcript of what your transmission will sound like>.
After seeing the colum of smoke I'd transmit the following;
Engine# to Communications, we have a heavy black smoke colum on the horizon in the area of the address, go ahead and fill the box, we'll be switching over to the tac channel.
After pulling onto the street, the next transmition would be this;
Engine# to Communications, we're laying out from the hydrant infront of _____ Labador Loop. Have the 2nd due engine pick up our line.
As the engine pulls up to and just past the address the following would be transmitted;
Engine# to Communications, we have a two story single family home with heavy fire in the garage on Side Alpha, and it's extended into the roof. Nothing showing on Side Bravo, and light smoke on Side Delta. I'll have a report on Side Charlie conditions soon as I make my lap. We also have a car in the driveway, and no one outside to meet us. There may have a rescue situation so give me a second alarm. We'll be stretching a handline through the front door on Side Alpha. Engine# is establishing Labador Command and I'll need to pass command to the first arriving Chief. Passport drop off will be the front bumper of our Engine.
I'd order my firefighter to stretch a 200ft 1 3/4" to the front while I went around Side David to get a look at conditions on Side Charlie. (Our SOP requires that Side Charlie be reconned and a report on conditions be transmitted over the tac channel before entry is made.)
My firefighter would be told to take the fog tip off the nozzle and use the smoothbore to get a quick hit on the fire in the garage, and hit what they can of the fire in the attic. Command would be past to the first arriving Chief, and I'd regroup with my crew. After getting a knock on the fire, we'd make entry via the front door and stretch the line into the kitchen to hold the interior and attack what's left. Being the Engine OIC operating on the 1st floor, the BC would more than likely assign me as Division 1.
The 2nd due engine would stretch a line inside and go to the 2nd floor with the truck company and take Division 2. The 3rd due engine would stretch a 300ft line and enter through Side Charlie and provide a back up line for crews on the 2nd floor.
The inside team of the 1st due special service unit (truck or rescue), would report to Division 1 and make a primary search. The 2nd due special service would report to Division 2 and conduct a search of that floor. Outside teams of both trucks and rescue would control utilities, throw ladders, vent. The inside team of the 3rd special service company would get with the 4th due engine (RIT) and form the RIT Group and stage near the command post on Side Alpha with all of their equipment.
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Permalink Reply by Spartacus on
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Typically in our situation, I'd call for mutual aid while en route -- I can always cancel if I don't need them after all. I wouldn't wait until I was up to my ears in flame. The apparatus I'm probably in (442) doesn't carry enough water to wet your lips on a hot day, so I'm probably not putting the fire out with that...
"Dispatch, 442, I'm on scene with a crew of (How many guys do I have?) at (address) Single family Rez with Attached garage second floor above and attic all showing heavy smoke and flame. Request mutual aid from (dept) 1 engine and 1 tanker (we don't have many hydrants in our district). Over."
My first thought is the people. Where the hell are they???? At least it's daytime.
Attic looks gone. Garage looks gone. Second floor above garage doesn't look good either. I need a 360 and fast. What's on the Charlie side?? 1st and/or 2nd floor access/escape route?? Looks like some smoke there. What's the situation...??
The part of the house to the left on the Alpha side doesn't look involved. I'd get my 1.7 hose over there first, pop the door, see what's what. Try to contain the fire long enough to do a primary there... then hit the fire directly.
No windows on the Delta side. Not good.
If I can man a second hoseline, I'd take it to the Charlie side, depending on what's there.
No apparent exposure to deal with.
I want the next arrivals -- probably our engine -- to pull a 2.5 and hit the fire directly from the Alpha side. Ladder the Charlie side, too.
Those are my thoughts. Comments, anybody?
Thanks!
sj
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Jim,
I understand - it's difficult to determine an entire set of strategy and tactics from one photo.
I also understand the limitations of setting strategy for a construciton type that you don't have in your response area.
For example, it's been quite a few years since I fought a fire in a multistory, ordinary construction apartment building. we don't have those where I work. I'd have to knock some of the rust off before I'd feel truly ready to take on a fire in one of those.
I'm familiar with this type of construction because they're common in my area...and I live in one.
Ben
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