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Thoughts on NFPA apparatus standards
OK, what’s your thoughts on NFPA apparatus standards. How far is this going to go? For the most part all are good, but still, there are a few. I personally feel in their goal to make trucks safer, they may be going a bit overboard. I’m going to take a guess here but 90% of all accidents are driver error, so why fix the truck? Before you know it there will be training wheels. I’m just whining because the truck we are about to purchase is 100 grand more then the last one we purchased 8 years ago. Is it any safer? Not that I can tell, there are a few more lights, a warning buzzer or 2, maybe another grab bar or slip plate, but basically the same. Yes I know costs go up annually, and in the last 2 years have made big jumps, but come on. The reason we are buying 2 years ahead of schedule is in 09 new NFPA standards will add an estimated 20 grand. I understand change is needed from time to time but do we need a black box to tell us it was driver error, or hooks for helmets, or single point air for the tires, when is enough enough? I’ll get off my soap box now.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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I thought donning an air pack then buckling the seat belt was common practice. Is there a better way?
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Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
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"I am wondering since NFPA wants the retroreflective striping on the back of the truck to be chevrons placed @ 45 degree angles from the center if anyone knows the particular reason for it." - Jenny Holderby
It's just like the warning signs placed next to bridge abutments and guardrails, except that those are yellow and black chevrons at a 45 degree angle toward the safe area. In the case of NFPA 1901, the chevrons will point towards both sides of the apparatus at a 45 degree angle.
Hope this helps, stay safe!
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We did it that way for years. Now we buckle the seat belt and ride to the incident. Upon arrival, you unbuckle, and strap into yopur SCBA. You don't lose any time and your seat belt actually gets worn!
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Permalink Reply by Brian Boeseneilers on
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Does anyone know anything about the regulation saying you can't wear you helmets on the way to calls? I have only heard rumors.
Thanks
Brian
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I believe it's written into NFPA 1901 (2009 Edition).
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Fire Service SOP here. It's thought that because of the shape, with the 'tail', they are likely to cause neck injuries in a collision.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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I like the return to the old practice of mounting the SCBA in the high side compartments in swing-out brackets. Getting the SCBA out of the cab is the only way to really make sure that every firefighter is wearing the seat belt instead of fumbling with the SCBA. Several firefighters per year die due to not wearing seat belts but zero firefighters per year die due to SCBA not being mounted in the cab.
If you have SCBA in the cab seats, then your practice is fine - IF everyone abides by it, ever time.
I like engineering the human factor out of the equation, but even my department didn't make the step that radical in our new engines. We do meet all of the NFPA 1901 regs that the engines were built under. That includes basically everything in the 2009 version except the helmet retention systems and we're looking into a way to retrofit a workable system for that.
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The (admittedly non-scientific) reason for the diagonal chevrons is that most manmade objects have vertical and horizontal surfaces, but very few have diagonal or chevron surfaces. The hi-viz chevrons are designed to stand out against virtually any background, either natural or manmade. Our first new engine ran a call in the rain the other day and the chevrons stood out better than the warning lights...and the warning lights on the new rides are pretty visible.
The only thing you can see better than the chevrons on the new rigs are the LED RotoRays. Those are extremely visible, and, well, they look pretty cool, too.
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I understand the length and color of the seatbelts being included, and the warning devices. I assumed those were related to using seatbelts with the SCBA seats. At least they now do put seatbelts in firetrucks. Our 1998 Pierce has a 5 man cab with SCBA seats. The new Sutphen has a crew cab with them as well. All with seatbelts. As I mentioned before, the belts should have been a bit longer to allow for the bulk of PPE and for bigger people in PPE. A person who is taller than most also has issues with the length of the belts. Seat belts much like SCBA straps are much easier to take up if they are too long and don't work properly if they are too short.
But too, I have an issue with the harness in the driver seat on one of our trucks. By the time I adjust the seat forward and higher the seat belt is an inth too short to fasten comfortably striking me across my neck, not my shoulder making it difficult to turn my head to the left. Gotta look both ways.
Using seatbelts has to be a practice/protocol that we all use as we do in our personal vehicles. It is a conditioned response that anytime you get in any vehicle, you reach for the seatbelt. For most of us that habit was learned from buzzers going off when we didn't buckle up and because we didn't want to pay outrageous fines if we were caught without them. We have all been reminded over & over that we should wear seatbelts. It is an automatic response with younger drivers. They learned to put their belts on when they got in the car as children. When they learned to drive it wasn't an option, fastening seat belts was a step in preparing to operate a vehicle. We old fogies are the ones who had to learn to wear them.
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Permalink Reply by Joey "BigShow" De Piano on
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I have BIG mixed feelings on NFPA, only cause most of their people are the same contractors and or manufacturers of the stuff they say we HAVE to use, find that a issue cause we all know good or bad they will push the rules to fit their companies needs, I also feel if 90% of industry standards fall under osha or posha why do we need NFPA?
Not saying what they do or set is all bad but if you read posha standards to Nfpa there are a ton of conflicts, wouldn't you think these rules and standards would match across the board?
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Joey, perhaps this is because you don't really have National "standards"? Just guidelines?
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Permalink Reply by Trainer on
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For those of you jumping in, FETC posted the standards on pg 2.
If you can don before you exit the station, good for you, most of us are still fumbling with our gear. If you can don with the seatbelt on, a 3point, good for you, most can’t, so they unbuckle don then rebuckle, just takes a few seconds, need I say more. Let’s move them (SCBA’s) out of the cab, good idea, but storage does become an issues. I know lets make a device that locks them down unless the truck is in neutral….wait a minute…..I’m back to where I started, we can’t change the people, so lets change the truck.
We all know seatbelts save lives, we see it every day, in 20 years I have only seen 1 time this was not true, he wasn’t wearing and it saved his life, funny thing is he still got a ticket. Point is we have to do it, we need to do it, so just do it, before NFPA comes up with a device that does it automatic and adds another 5 grand to the price of a truck.
NFPA, OSHA, and even the EPA have very few laws that we as FF have to abide by, a lot of standards, but few laws, but should something go wrong the standards are what we are judged by. The one incentive that provokes me on the seatbelt law/standard is; as OIC in the truck, if someone is not wearing and they get hurt, it’s my ass on the line.
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