Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Heavy Rescue Squad Captain on January 30, 2009 at 10:15pm

Obviously the first thing is to secure the power( call the power company in to handle this). The next is to call for a crane. Use the crane to hook into the frame of the vehicle to help hold it up. Then utilize struts( we use paratech struts others might use rescue jacks or something of that nature). I might also consider using an extensive amount of cribbing to create a platform underneath the vehicle and then use low pressure air bags to kind of cup the vehicle. Then use an A frame ladder or "Little Giant ladder" for stabilization of personnel working off of the ladder. My next question is are the doors able to open just by pulling the handle or is the going to be door pop? Either way you would have to gain access to the patient so when that is done, I would use either a KED or just a long board to package the patient. I would create a slide by using two A frame ladders and then a roof ladder leaning on the two A frame ladders and then slide the patient down. If you really want to go the extra step, I would maybe a ladder truck on the opposite side of the vehicle that your taking the patient out on and then use a 4 to 1 mechanicle haul safe anchored to the ladder truck and obviously your load being the patient on the backboard or even stokes basket.

Permalink Reply by Oldman on January 31, 2009 at 5:40am

COMPETENT operator? Oops there I go thinking out loud again. Around here, we use tow truck operators for entertainment. In the proverbial monkey vs football, my money always goes to the football.

It is interesting though to see how elaborate some of the operations are being designed. As far as extending a boom, operators around here think a boom is what happens when they fall down. Not that many around here except for heavy hooks.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 31, 2009 at 12:14pm

Oldman,Can't help you there.There's still some dummies here too but PD?Fire knows who to call.Now if you local tow co's want to kick in some scheckles,MAYBE I CAN fix your problem.In any event without some kind of hyd intervention this is going to be a problem.Like I said earlier,just cut the pole.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 31, 2009 at 12:23pm

Cap,If you're going to the aggravation of getting a crane,WHY are you getting all the rest of that stuff out? Low pressure bags have NO stability,useless in this scenerio.You got a crane,lift and disentangle,gently lower to wheels.Safe smooth and easy.Common strut is useless here,you have no way to triangulate. YES,contrary to popular belief you CAN move vehicles like this with the patients inside WITHOUT causing any more injury than they have already sustained.In this case the occupants are trying to catch the next bus out of town before the cops get there.As I said before,this job is EASY.15 minutes tops from arrival to sitting on all four tires.

Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on January 31, 2009 at 7:45pm

Using a crane... Ok some basic issues with this. First off, have you notified the Phone company (since they are phone lines) the power company and also the cable company? (and any other company who has lines on this pole) Since those lines are going to have to be cut and removed to get a crane access this is a consideration your going to need to make. Using a tow company with heavy cable's you will get the proper height and also not be too high to interfere with the other wires.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on January 31, 2009 at 9:10pm

You could do it with a small crane without messing with the wires.If I were inclined to use the crane,I'd have the power company secure the overhead power.From what I can see in the pic,I believe you have just enough room to set up a small(like 25 ton) crane.Personally I'd use a small to medium(8-16 ton)wrecker.

Permalink Reply by Jim on January 31, 2009 at 11:54pm

I wouldn't consider a FD Platform truck company. Have you seen the video of the truck company in Japan trying to do a rescue of the folks on a fair ride that collapsed as they approached it? If you have, you understand my hesidensy. Fire fighters thrown violently to the ground. As for putting a rescuer in the car, no way until it is secured and stabilized. Did you get my comments about the chain and OSHA. Your truck with hydro winchs and wire rope cables are a different story, but if you use chain in the rigging, you open a whole new can of worms. I am not saying I will not move a vehicle to a safer location to do a rescue and extrication, because I have done it twice in my career. But both times, a medic agreed that the patients were stable and two seperate trucks with winch's were used to bring the vehicle to the top of an incline before the rescue was finished. I would much rather secure this vehicle in place or attach a winch to it from a safe platform with protection to even make the crane / Class 3 wrecker connection. I also know your not telling me that a Class 1 (light duty )wrecker can extend it's boom and have the ability to hook and lower this vehicle without the front end coming off the ground ???

Permalink Reply by Heavy Rescue Squad Captain on February 1, 2009 at 2:04am

You are right, low pressure bags have no stability in this situation by themsef. Using them with a crane I believe will work just fine. I also believe, that depending on the patients condition plays a lot into this scenerio. Now after looking at the pic a little better, they are not high power lines, but I would still call the power company for scene safety. I would stabilize the vehicle just the way it is and perform patient removal.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on February 1, 2009 at 6:07pm

That's EXACTLY what I'm telling you,and I speak with the experience of lifting MANY of this size vehicles in a similar orientationwith a one ton 4x4 wrecker(your class 1). Chain in overhead lifting is PERFECTLY acceptable(even to Osha) as long as it is grade 80 or better.With the boom elevated and extended,you need only to lift and clear the comm wires and lower(slowly)until the rear bumper hits the ground.At that point you slowly drive ahead as you lower the boom.At this point the tow truck has to carry only about 1500# or less so it certainly isn't going to pull the front wheels off the ground.With my truck this is ubereasy as it has a live hyd pump and and automatic.The ONLY wild card is WHAT those wires are hung on but I've done a lot of jobs worse than this. Never do on the street what you haven't practised in the yard. This job ,TO A COMPETENT/WRECKMASTER tow operator is a short term "fun" job.FWIW I'm a 4/5 Wreckmaster and I've been operating towing equipment since I was 10 so about 45 years in some of the more challenging enviornments in the Northeast.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on February 1, 2009 at 6:37pm

I love forums like this.Your approach would be secure and rescue.I have no problems with that except: With the experience I have in the field,I know I can rig this job and have the vehicle SAFELY on the ground in LESS time than it will take you and your crew to secure it, much less effect the rescue.In my mind and in practice,the safest way to work this job is on the ground.Which is easily done.Logistically,this one's a nightmare if you don't have the right equipment nearby.Well,I OWN the right equipment so it becomes another adventure.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on February 1, 2009 at 6:40pm

Look overhead ,.the Hi lines aren't in the BEST spot for a crane,however I think with a little cooperation from the power company,it's still doable This isn't much different than a car over a bridge with no access a job we do with fair regularity.

Permalink Reply by Asst Chief Tim Cook on February 1, 2009 at 7:05pm

I don't think you'll find single digit chain anymore unless it's old stock,at least not in the towing/recovery world. 30/junk! 43 Hi test junk,70 first of the useable chain(transport)80 Alloy,good all around chain,100 GOOD chain and 120 REALLY good chain.Anything we use in "overhead" lifting(anything 1" or more off the ground is 80 or 100.Don't have any 120 right now,the price will come down in a couple years.I wasn't thinking about you comparing the OLD designation,in the NEW,a 10 chain is under a proof thirty(old 3)and I use that to hook my Rott. 30 Chain is JUNK and has NO place in the Fire Rescue/Towing world.The Smallest chain I use anywhere in my outfit is a 5/16's 70 on the hauler and for the sling on the small truck as 3/8's won't ft in the sling hooks.Input,put me in with Jonny 5(the robot in "Short Circuit"),more data.Oh,you're going to get "beat up" on your other latest post,hopefully we can stimulate some interest before we beat this to death.

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