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800 Mhz Radio Systems verses 400 Mhz.
Hello everyone,
Our local county, Anderson County TN, is considering "upgrading" to a 800 Mhz trunking system county wide for all VFD's, EMS, SO and Rescue Squads to use. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using these and what the pro's and con's are.
Let me tell you about the county, we are mostly rual and have a varity of landscape from flat area's to hils and deep valleys. We currently have 2 400 Mhz (453.025) repeaters up one to the North and one to the South of the county. This has decent coverage with several holes in it that portable can't use and the mobiles have problems sometimes working. We also have a couple of simplex (direct) channels we use... one being the repater output and the other a new narrow band freq. Not everyone can use that due to it being a narrow band license some of our "older" radios can transmit there but can only listen. With the prices of the Narrow Band radios we can only afford to replace a couple of radios a year if weare lucky. Yes we are a poor department... most of the time we are luck to cover the bills and truck repairs, let alone anything new.
From what I have read these sytem are about $4K a mobile radio and $3K a handheld plus $100 year per radio to be able to operate in the trunking system? Can only one enlighten me about this?
From what I guessing to out fit the 5 trucks, the rescue mule, both fire stations and the portable radios would cost us over $100 k. If so that would put us out of business... thats more than we take in donations and grants a year if we have a good year.
BTW not that I am NOT begging ( LOL ) Yes I am..... if anyone has some spare radios laying around we could use them if you want to donate or sell for a discounted price. We are lucky one of the communications company's in Knoxville helps VFD's out by programming our radios for FREE if we take them there. But we are hurting for radios that can do narrow band for everyone to to be able to communicate.
Thanks everyone for your input!
Moe AVFD 7247
Our local county, Anderson County TN, is considering "upgrading" to a 800 Mhz trunking system county wide for all VFD's, EMS, SO and Rescue Squads to use. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience using these and what the pro's and con's are.
Let me tell you about the county, we are mostly rual and have a varity of landscape from flat area's to hils and deep valleys. We currently have 2 400 Mhz (453.025) repeaters up one to the North and one to the South of the county. This has decent coverage with several holes in it that portable can't use and the mobiles have problems sometimes working. We also have a couple of simplex (direct) channels we use... one being the repater output and the other a new narrow band freq. Not everyone can use that due to it being a narrow band license some of our "older" radios can transmit there but can only listen. With the prices of the Narrow Band radios we can only afford to replace a couple of radios a year if weare lucky. Yes we are a poor department... most of the time we are luck to cover the bills and truck repairs, let alone anything new.
From what I have read these sytem are about $4K a mobile radio and $3K a handheld plus $100 year per radio to be able to operate in the trunking system? Can only one enlighten me about this?
From what I guessing to out fit the 5 trucks, the rescue mule, both fire stations and the portable radios would cost us over $100 k. If so that would put us out of business... thats more than we take in donations and grants a year if we have a good year.
BTW not that I am NOT begging ( LOL ) Yes I am..... if anyone has some spare radios laying around we could use them if you want to donate or sell for a discounted price. We are lucky one of the communications company's in Knoxville helps VFD's out by programming our radios for FREE if we take them there. But we are hurting for radios that can do narrow band for everyone to to be able to communicate.
Thanks everyone for your input!
Moe AVFD 7247
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joe Stoltz on
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800 vs 400? If the systems are designed properly performance should be about the same. 800 equipment is certainly more expensive than UHF, plus the radio system itself needs additional tower sites to get the same coverage as 400.
I have bought good used UHF wideband/narrowband radios on ebay for much lower prices than new equipment would demand. You have to be careful on ebay but the equipment is there.
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Permalink Reply by Stephen Gilbert on
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I am a sales rep from motorola. The 800mhz radios are a great deal different from you standard 400mhz system. I volunteer for the state of delaware and all aspects of 911 are useing the 800 ie police, fire, ems, forestry, dot. is is very help full that Most of the motorola radios are digital and you can program up too 500 different channels in a single mobile radio and 25 in a portable. These radios are also intrinsicly safe and you can not listen to them directly from a scanner unless they are retransmitted through a vhf,uhf repeater. The system has its up and downs. We currently have 4 repeter towers in sussex county alone. The only real trouble spots are near the beach and inside industrial buildings. But motorola had already thought of this. The radio is able to be programmed for low band brodcasting. It has a range of about 2 miles but it is very affective in trouble areas. There are alsom several grant out there that you can apply for to help equip your trucks with uptodate radios. If you have any questions you can e-mail me.
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sorry 250 channels in a portable
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Permalink Reply by Moe Brewer on
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Thanks for the information, but I an still really worried we are going to have some major issuses.. do they have a direct freq or simplex freq we can use off the repeater? This is still in the planning stages we hear anyway... I am ham radio operator so my unterstanding of how radios work is above average... I have to admit we have some major holes in the 450 system which will be amplified by 800 Mhz.
Can you send me some information on the system ( my direct email is moe@tnavfd.com ) I couriuos about it. Granted the prices are different but can "ball park" what you think it might cost us... Also you said you could get me some grant money info... that would be great if you could get me that!
Thanks! Stay safe, Moe
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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Here in the state of MI, 800 is being pushed hard by the state. I have yet to hear any agency forced to go on it...happy with it. I'm the sales manager of a local 2-way radio shop. We ALWAYS give 1st responders a break when it comes to new or used mobile and portable units.
This is not a sales pitch, but if you'd like to give us a call our website is in my profile. We'll help if we can......:)
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Permalink Reply by brian rogers on
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Look at the Relm line, The Bat Wing people started this mess with the Digital Conversion,, try using them in remote areas like we have and you will wish you had your old radios back, the Stephens Co. Sheriffs Dept. got the Digital radios and have nothing but problems, you pay 3 G's for them and they dont work what an investment.
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Permalink Reply by Bill Muehsam on
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Here in Arkansas, we have a state wide 700/800 digital system that allows any first reponder to talk to any other first reponder, from anywhere in the state. It works very well and has already paid dividends in responding to this years natural disasters. As for our county, we just upgraded the volly FD'd to 800. Total price was around $2 mil, that included mobiles for all first line apparatus, 8 portables per FD, new dispatch center radios, and a few repeater upgrades. The radio's can be expensive, depending on who you buy from. Our system is a 20 freq trunk. We pay a user fee(per radio, per year) to the owning municipality. Our county is 702 sq miles and is covered by three repeaters (North, South, and Central). We have no coverage problems with the system. Depending on programing, you can get a Direct and BAck up channel installed for use indoors and when the system goes down. I love our systems.
We now have total interoperability within the county and throughout the state.
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Permalink Reply by Frosty on
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I mean no offense to anyone... BUT...I don't think I have seen so much misinformation in one place in a long time.
Joe, You are exactly correct. System design is everything - and of course cost is too.
Steve, a sales rep from Motorola? Perhaps the cell phone division? While in Deleware the systems may be predominatly digital, Motorola has more analog product than digital at this point, not the other way around. Those radio you use in Deleware on the 800 mhz system are NOT CAPABLE OF LOWBAND. Perhaps talk around, but certainly not lowband.
Bill, the AWIN system in no way gives you complete interoperabilty throughout the state. Perhaps down there in Pulaski County, but get out a bit into areas like Baxter county, Fulton county, and many other parts of the state, you will be able to talk to perhaps the local EMA director, or a select few people in the area. VHF is still used a LOT outstate.
In order for any first responder to talk to any first responder, you would either need every first responder to be on the system, or you would need bridges in all parts of the state. Neither has happened in Arkansas, and probably never will.
Don't get me wrong - AWIN is a very good system, and it works so much better than the old statewide system, but it is still not a cure all. Far from it. Any system that is sole source, or durn near sole source is problematic to begin with.
Moe, TN is building out the Chatanooga/Hamilton County 800 mhz system all the way to Knoxville, and with that your county is included. Perhaps this is what the county is looking at, if not, and they are dead set on going 800 MHZ, they should be. it promises to be a very nice system.
Money for your department to get on the system? Look at your AFG grant program. One of the high priorities of that program is communications gear. It will have to go through state review, but that should not be an issue going on that system. Contact JJ at TEMA for more information about qualifying radios.
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Noticed the date of posting in January of 2008, if you found a solution or found you're more confused now than ever, send me an e-mail regarding current state of communications and problems. Whatever you do, don't listen to the vendors....
Bob Grimes
kb7rug@aol.com
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Permalink Reply by caleb on
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hey we are in the same situatiion as yall small rural area lots of farm land and we just upgraded the whole county and ems to 800 mhz and i love it you have three sets of controls and with three sets of channels i think its an awesome system yes its quite more expensive but it has allowed us to talk with life flight from the ground and it has a state wide fire channel so if you have a big incident with multiple agencies you can have everyone go to that channel for communications and my asst cheif had his radio one day when he had to drive about 5 to 6 hours away and said he could hear and communicate with us fine so i like the 800 system but everyone has their own opinion lol take it easy and be safe bye
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