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Should fire and e.m.s. remain seperate departments?
In my area we have volenteer fire depts. and volenteer e.m.s. depts. I know that medical training is becoming more and more meshed with fire training. Should they stay seperate? Should e.m.s. handle all med. calls and fire only fire calls?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Tony,
Basic EMT training requires fewer training hours than does Firefighter II training in the U.S.
Most EMS providers in the U.S. are not paramedics.
I don't have a problem with career EMS paramedics serving in places where all of the primary volunteers are firefighters. I've spent a great deal of my career doing just that - from both sides of the issue.
What I found is that my firefighter training made me a better paramedic, especially when it came to caring for fire and hazmat victims, scene safety, the Incident Command system, and a host of other things that paramedic training doesn't address very well. I also found that volunteer firefighters trained to the EMT level tended to be a lot better at helping with patient care. Most importantly, most of the best rescue providers (fire and/or EMS) I know are both firefighters and EMTs or paramedics, and their rescue is patient-oriented because of the dual background.
We live in an increasing "All Hazard" world, and fire/EMS cross-training is an important part of being able to handle all hazards smoothly and flexibly.
As for the U.S. alphabet soup confusion, check out this basic EMS information page sponsored by the National Registry of Emergency Medical Technicians. http://www.nremt.org/nremt/about/ems_learn.asp
Here's a link to the certification process from the state EMS agency in my state. http://www.scdhec.net/health/ems/certification.htm
Happy New Year,
Ben
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Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
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Once upon a time, there was a simple world here in the USA that enabled folks with a Red Cross first aid certificate to work on an ambulance to deliver pre-hospital care. That was pre-1970's. Then came along the concept of Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT-1) and the folks with first-aid cards were required to take the EMT training as a minimum standard. Since then, the paramedic program has been developed and is now the standard for EMS delivery here in the states. Speaking only for the California Fire Service, all firefighters possess both an EMT certification as well as an American Heart Association BLS / AED training certificate.
Through attrition, my department hires basically only paramedics as a rule. These folks work their careers and eventually advance through the ranks, with the paramedic training in their background. So for the most part, firefighters in my department often times were trained paramedics. This is how we get depth into the system... as well as my attempt to explain some of our acronyms for you Tony.
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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I do agree with a few here my personal opinion is cross train firefighter with the basics in EMS if they desisre more training let them i have no problem what so ever with paramedic firefighter but making it manditiory i disagree with it would eliminate to many good firefighters paid and espically the vols keeping a paid 24/7 rescue or ALS unit is a must in my opinion teach the firefighters the basics and then let the paramedics do the rest its just way to much for one person to handle on a scene.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
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Through attrition, my department hires basically only paramedics as a rule. These folks work their careers and eventually advance through the ranks, with the paramedic training in their background. So for the most part, firefighters in my department often times were trained paramedics.
The problem I have with this system is we are taking EMT-P and making them FFs instead of the other way around. It gives me the impression that the fire service should now be called an EMS service that fights fires.
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Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
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The problem I have with this system is we are taking EMT-P and making them FFs instead of the other way around.
I'd venture to suggest (and this'll ruffle some feathers!) that it'd be easier to train a paramedic to be a firefighter as opposed to the other way around.
As Tony P said, over here, it's nearly a 3 year fulltime course to become a paramedic as oppossed to 3 months (or there abouts, depending on how the training is being done) to become a qualified firefighter (what we call Certificate II).
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Permalink Reply by Aussie_Wildfire on
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Lutan did you read this. Our registed Nurses have more training!!
The EMS Dispatcher then sends the appropriate EMS professionals to the scene. These professionals may be educated as First Responders (requires about 40 hours of training), EMT-Basics (requires about 110 hours of training), EMT-Intermediates (requires 200-400 hours of training) or Paramedics (requires 1,000 or more hours of training). The make-up of an EMS response team is a local decision based upon local resources and the priorities of those who fund the resources. EMS professionals are serious about providing the best possible care under the best possible circumstances.
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Reread my post Wildfire, I think you've misunderstood my post- I've quoted Jay's comment and have offered an opinion as to why it's easier to train a paramedic to become a firefighter, as opposed to being the other way around.
I know what training is required over here, I know it takes more hours (which is what I said)- I've had 5 years teaching paramedics here in Vic as a sessional lecturer at MUCAPS and the old AOTC.
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Sorry lutan. I wasn't having a go at your post. I think I was shocked by how less trained they are and wanted to share my surprise with someone else.
Happy New Year
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Permalink Reply by John on
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I think Departments should have both Fire and Ems. that way if a person only wants to be a first responder he is not kicked out for not being an EMT, and the same for those that want just the EMT or Paramedic rankings they could be apart of a Department and still not have to worry about fighting fires. My opinion of course
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That's cool! I misunderstood the intention of your post- wanna beer and bbq to make up? :)
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Permalink Reply by Art "ChiefReason" Goodrich on
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The interesting human factor that I find in this is that communities are willing to PAY EMTs per call for their "volunteer" service, but if you ask them if they are willing to pay a "volunteer" firefighter something for their efforts, they get all huffy!
Plus, around here anyway, when people pass away, the ambulance service is ALWAYS mentioned for memorial money. The fire department gets memorial money once in a while, but that's because there was a connection.
However; that said; I think that fire departments should train their people to first responder level, so that, under certain circumstances, they could "treat their own" if need be and expand that to include assisting the ambu, if the ambu wants it. Don't want to force anything upon them. They have the public support.
The other side benefit in on MVAs. Where the fire department does extrication-why do newspapers call it "extraction"-FD first responders can get into the vehicle to control bleeding, do C-spine traction, etc. and all under the command of the chief.
We have a GREAT relationship with our ambulance service. Though we are not fire/EMS, we are fire/RESCUE and having firefighters with some medical training has its tactical advantages.
Then, we need to find a way to tap into the "memorial money" thing.
TCSS.
Art
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