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Flashover, what the hell were they thinking?
As you can see, the room is already lit up. Apparently they are in no rush to get the ladder off the rig and in place. So......WTF?
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
http://e.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?file=http%3A%2F%2Fbli...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Allen Wahlstrom on
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OK this drives me nuts!
First if you have no experience other than posting opinions and watching videos at the fire house, shut the h@ll up.
Second, until you have been there, in a position of authority and know everything on the fireground that happened follow step one.
Asking questions about why he entered, what he was doing, what were the conditions HE saw and if the risk was worth it are all valid questions.
Saying the guy was a Fn idiot is just flat wrong.
From what I saw of your profile Erin, you have a lot of wildland and an indeterminable amount of structural experience.
Go watch the video again after reading the Captains description and you might see that your comments were not only disrespectful, but totally uncalled for.
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Permalink Reply by rfdjumper on
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I have watched the video, it appeared the brother was performing VES. Then I readthe brothers account from Indy. After reading, I agree with his decision. He had a report of a trapped individual, the time of day indicated there was a good chance someone was in a bedroom, his initial survey of the room indicated life could still be viable. The fact that he couldn't get the bedroom door closed lead to his quick egress as the fire advanced towards the fresh supply of air.
To those who say that there should of been a line or that building looked like a defensive attack, or ladders should of been footed or the climbing angle this or that. Yo! SDASTFU! Textbook doesn't always work in real life.
Learn how other people do business in the industry. Most larger city departments don't carry water on an aerial. The truck companies don't wait for the Engines to arrive for companies to start doing work. If you don't feel comfortable doing VES, then don't.
Stay Safe!
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Permalink Reply by chris pietsch on
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The fire officer that made the entry and then bailed commented on the video on www.vententersearch.com. He said the fire we see in the window is actually in the hallway outside the room. He also said he tried to get across to the door to close it but never made it. Its an intersting read if you can find it.
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its actually reprinted here on the second page of comments
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Permalink Reply by Chris on
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http://www.fox59.com/pages/landing/?Unprecedented-firefighter-study...
"On Memorial Day morning veteran Station 10 firefighter, Captain Rick Van Sant, came within a second or two of making the ultimate sacrifice.
Van Sant survived a flashover and while escaping from the Temple Avenue home his heart rate was actually lower than his fellow firefighters who were watching his attempt to save a woman who was said to be trapped inside."
Clearly was a flashover.
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Permalink Reply by Tim on
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That's a very lucky fireman right there. This is why the truck company always needs to throw up the portables when they're dumping in to search. This is a clear prime example of why it's a good thing to always have portables up.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on
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I read the explanation and watched the video, but it still doesn't add up for me...sorry. I have been wrong before, and maybe I am again here, but it just doesn't seem like a great call. Again, sorry.
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I don't even see any evidence of the engine company making a push on this. or any lines hitting the fire.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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I have watched this video quite a few times. Each time I watch the video, I try to monitor a different situation. (FF actions, smoke conditions, fire conditions) I suggest each of you do the same.
I feel that while we all have the benefit of sitting behind our computer screens and knowing the outcome, the Captain who made entry (from Indy FD who see's well more than enough fire to call him a seasoned Jake) did so on the premise that there was a victim entrapped in the bedroom he entered. The fire behavior shown at that time is that the fire is just beginning to roll a little into the room as he made entry. (ordinarily considered a workable atmosphere) He entered the room from the window to close the door and afford more time to do a complete search on the primary area where the potential victim was at that time of night.
Why didn't he have a hose line? Whens the last time during a primary search that you brought one in? Known trapped victims usually means you have a primary S&R team with NO hoseline making a RAPID search (usually with a TIC) while the firefighters arriving on scene are beginning fire suppression. (should conditions warrant as in this case it should have)
I would be inclined to believe that a section of ceiling fell or a interior wall fell causing the fire to rapidly deteriorate the conditions to the level they did so unexectedly.
If I were that Captain today, based on those conditions and AFTER reading this forum post, I would be inclined to do the search. I don't have a death wish, not do I want to get hurt. I simply want that victim (who if they are on the floor would have first and second degree burns at most and most likely alive. Read the smoke!!!) to make it out alive. Like the Captain in the video, closing the door and adding a barrier between the fire and the primary search area will give more time and improve the conditions temporarily in the room to accomplish the mission.
Instead of calling this Captain "an Idiot" or any other name, put yourself in his shoes. Break down each aspect of the video and write notes on that 1 aspect. It takes more than 1 quick view to understand whats going on. He acted base on his YEARS of INTERIOR STRUCTURAL FIREFIGHTING experience and based on the conditions that existed at the time.
For all the nay-sayers, how much smoke came from the window when he popped the glass using the ladder? (pretty much 0) That fire's rapid growth fed by the fresh oxygen caused the close call, not a stupid decision.
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Well said and well thought out, brother!
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There are very good reasons to set ground ladders at shallow angles in this situation.
One is to clear the ground-level obstructions.
Another is that it's much safer to do a head-first bailout down a ladder set at a shallow angle.
In this case, with an experienced firefighter performing VES and realizing that the situation was marginal, he had a ladder proactively set at a shallow angle to facilitate the headfirst bailout that he had to do.
It looks as if the ladder angle was spot on.
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Permalink Reply by Cory on
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I second that motion that Allen made! What he did isn't for inexperience people. Erin have you ever heard of VES = Vent entered search? Because that’s what he did, and the ladder is placed like that for a reason. If he could have taken control of the door (the reason he couldn't is because it was blocked) then he could have cut the flames off. I believe the fire that is in the room is rolling in from the hallway and the contents in the room are not on fire yet. I could be wrong but that part is just my opinion! But the guy who did that has 23 years on the Indianapolis Fire Department and he is in a busy fire district. If you scroll threw here you can see what he wrote about this incident.
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