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Chief On Scene; Working Residential with Trapped Civilians
You’re the Company Officer (or Acting Officer) on the first-due Engine Company. Chief's on scene with a working fire in a single story wood frame residential occupancy. Confirmed by neighbors that there is an elderly female confined to a wheelchair in the residence possibly with a second resident. Hydrant is near the house as you arrive.
The house was built within the past year. Discuss your immediate actions and why. What’s your assignments based upon a (very liberal) five person crew. ( you weren’t short staffed today). What are your safety concerns, what’s the level of risk to your personnel and where a you going to go first? Where is your crew going to go first? Assuming a second due Engine Company is still 5 minutes out, with the Truck Company being heard in the distance. If you assume the Command Officer’s role; What’s your Incident Action Plan (IAP)? What’s the risk/benefit profile? What are your concerns for the occupants? For the firefighters? (Are you sweating yet?) “Affirmative; Engine, your on scene, now lets get to work”
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by BillySFCVFD on
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Five fire fighters seems to a good start, blessed to have that many on first due. Looks like the garage is completely engulfed but not the living area. I'd say, two to hook up hose and starting fighting (between house and garage), two to enter for search and rescue and one to act as IC (checking rear for escape routes, dealing with scene updates and reporting them, etc..). A lot can happen in five minutes but I believe by seeing the pics a rescue could be safe with risks worth taking. I've only been FFing for six months and an experienced officer would make that call for me. TCSS
PS Thanks for the test, I can learn safely. Santa Barbara Mike and you sure help with that.
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Permalink Reply by Bull on
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Well, Im going to be short and to the point. I would get a 2 1/2 going on the fire itself, and I would send a team to the front door, and see what they find. That would be a big denominator on if I would send in a crew for S&R. Bieng a newer house, its probably lite weight trusses, and seeing the black smoke coming from the eaves, tells me its probably burning in the attic, and has a good chance of truss failure. Again, depending on what kind of conditions my crew finds when they open the door, will be a big factor in the decision. Light smoke on first floor, go for it and be quick, possibly even going in from the rear. Heavy black smoke on first floor, go to defensive, slim chance of survival.
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Bull,
Black smoke from eaves, my rookie eyes missed that. I know black is bad especially when it comes from fire above you, one vent and poof. That's if the rafters hold and if they don't, crash and poof. I got a soft spot for the elderly but don't want to killed for it. Thanks, this web site is addicting. TCSS
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Permalink Reply by John on
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Definitely start with 2 1/2", have additional crews attempt entry to see what conditions are like inside and may just as quickly pull them as there could possible be no chance for survivability, with that much black smoke, LOTS AND LOTS OF WATER
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Permalink Reply by scott t on
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Start with a 2 1/2 maybe even a master stream to knock the fire back search only if it is safe. Other questions what was the response time to the call. This will help to do a quick risk assessment. To me it looks like the fire has spread from the garage to the living area right to the left of the entrance. Also we looked at a home being built not to long ago and there were no fire breaks/walls between the garage attic and the house only thing that was there was the ceiling in the garage so if this house was built the same the fire would be in the attic.
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Permalink Reply by Kirk D. Baughman on
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from the pictures above looks like it started in the garage area. i would think fire in attic by loking at pictures. we are pulling a 2 1/2 holes so water is going to be an issue. so we are going to have to lay an line in from the hydrant so we can have water because the next truck is still 5 min. out. then i would do a 360 around the house. i would have the other guys start pulling the line and do a quick knock down the the garage area. we could try the front door or maybe look at the back door. even putting a fan at the back of the house maybe???? we didnt start the problem we are their to fix it and then go home so no crazy stuff.....
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Permalink Reply by Bill Muehsam on
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"Dallas Blitz"......knock it down quick. Two man primary search on the right side of the structure while rest of the crew establishes water supply. Pull 2 1/2 attack line after water established. IC/Safety check utilities, shut them off, check perimeter of structure for extension and egress points.
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Permalink Reply by Ed on
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First things first! A 360 degree walk-around must be done first. There is a possibility that the occupants are attempting to self-rescue on another side of the house, plus, you'll want to see if there has been any form of structural collapse on the other sides of the building. After thats completed, I agree. Start with (2) on a 2 1/2 and get to knocking down the garage while two others are inside doing a rapid search for the occupants (if possible). I agree though that the black smoke coming from the eaves is a BAD sign. It would probably be best if your soon-to-arrive truck company brought in a back-up line (even though truckies aren't used to using hose). Its apparent that it'll be needed.
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Permalink Reply by Jenny Holderby on
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That heavy black smoke is the tar in the roof burning that causes a LOT OF HEAVY smoke. I can't see to tell what type of roof it really has, if it is a 1 1/2 story or if there is just a crawlspace above. Send 2 people to the back to see what is going on there or the other side to see where they might find a good point of entry for S&R. I can't tell from the picture HOW MUCH of the roof is actually involved. We are going to work very quickly & not spend 10 mins making this decission. I don't want them to spend all day searching but @ this point IF in fact there are 2 people in there, they may be trying to get out the back, remember a large % of victims are found near the doors trying to excape. There is a LOT of smoke but we can't tell what kind of fire damage there is to the roof from the picture. There is a LOT of fire from the garage but the smoke coming from the eves "could" be just smoke, so far.
That is why I hate looking @ pictures to try to get an idea of what really is going on. (You don't see it 360) An S&R team might be able to get in there & get out quickly before there is actually a threat of collapse. (if the roof over the house is not actively involved yet) Don't wait to make the decission & give it time to spread, after a few minutes it you will be concerned about a collapse. It LOOKS like the fire is the garage & the roof OVER the garage. I'm sure if it hasn't already spread to the main part of the house it will soon but it doesn't look like the main floor is engulfed @ this point either.
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Permalink Reply by Joel C Kelley on
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Conditions are deteriorating fast on this one! A 2 1/2" line is definitely a good option. Did the Chief do a 360 and look in windows? Is there a basement? Might have given a good indication where a vic might be trapped. 1st due engine runs a double lay and deploys a 2 1/2" near the front door to push fire away from the main house, and using an unmanned line would free up two more FF's for another assignment, horizontal ventilation of the structure by positive pressure at the front or back doors, which would improve conditions on the fire floor. Use the PPV to push smoke and heat away from unburned areas. This might allow a search team to get in and assess conditions. Survivability is certainly a question by this point, but without putting a team inside you don't really know. It would be a good guess to check the bedrooms which appear to be the unburned side of the house with the idea that you can go out a window if things go south too fast. In the case of an attached apartment in back, something we can't really asses from the pictures, again you have to read the smoke and decide accordingly. Yes, black smoke at the eaves should be a consideration as should the possibility of lightwieght truss construction, but we can't see into the attic until ventilation clears up the atmosphere.
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Permalink Reply by scott on
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well esttablish water to engine , attack with deck gun use initial 1000 gallons by then attack crew should be able to turn windows into egress openings . est rit crew on second due engine . using hand lines due search efforts thru windows that were now made into doors . rooms egress only in one room back out go in the next . iap plan would be tough you are still in rescue mode and supression until you can get all forms of incident comand in place depending on next few minutes plans can change instantly . chief on scene should of done 360 evaluation and advised arriving crews of functions . topics above would be mine as acting captain
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Permalink Reply by Jennica Stout on
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You mention trusses, I was reading the conversation to see if it might look a little further into new home construction. From both photo angles, it looks to be a single story with a fairly steep pitch to the roof. If you assume that's an office or bedroom to the front right, might this suggest vaulted ceilings to the larger rooms to the rear of the home?
That would change the strength of the trusses and possibly the speed at which the roof self ventilates, but I'm curious if anyone has had to deal with this before...would that make what we're seeing better or worse, or might it not change a thing?
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