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Permalink Reply by Oldman on October 27, 2008 at 7:38am

Tests or no tests, my experience with them has been that they fail faster than gusset plates. They are used extensively in this area.

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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on October 27, 2008 at 2:31pm

A major problem aside from the low contact points from a standard gusset plate (which is a flat piece of galvanized steel with triangular notchouts that come to sharp points. These sharp points are driven into the wood and are intended to give it structural support) Standard gusset plates would work much better if the building code would mandate a fastener system that would fasten the gusset plated into the truss in addition to having the sharp notch outs buried into the truss pieces.

High heat glue is great. From reading the information I gather they are much better. I know if I were an Incident Commander I would treat it as I would any other truss roof if there were a fire in the building. Until these have stood the test of time andmore PROVEN information is given by people I trust, (other firefighters)
I wouldn't assume the risk of potentially killing my firefighters in a collapse situation.

If this is a commercial building, aren't the wires supposed to be NON-Exposed and encased inside an arc protective conduit?

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Permalink Reply by Cory on October 28, 2008 at 8:33am

I am pretty sure that Oldman was right I didn't want to say it before I heard back from the guy in Chicago that did the tests with UL and of course my email went down at work yesterday so I don't know if it will even make it back so I might just make a phone call today but I am pretty sure its only a few minutes before they fail not good for us!!!! and to Todd I am pretty sure we have had our voice heard, the problem is the construction company's are looking at the bottom line I have to go do some stuff but when I get back I'll try to finish my reply.
Take it care and stay safe!
Cory

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Permalink Reply by John on October 28, 2008 at 9:01am

Looks kinda scarey from a fire stand point I don't think I would trust them given how construction companys try to cut costs on all aspects of buildings.

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Permalink Reply by DC Bombero on October 28, 2008 at 9:45am

It is interesting to read the comments given so far and while there are varying opinions I must say that this statement made by Mr. Naum is a good one for sure, "They require the same respect in incident command management and risk profiling. If these are popping up in your jurisdiction, you need to get into these structures, observe and prefire plan." The important part is to pre-plan - ALL BUILDINGS LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. I am not a believer in signs unless they give more information, as opposed to just about trusses. The IAFF rep from Cleveland developed and got approved in the International Code a sign that resembles a Maltese Cross with additional features and information on it. If I recall correctly MANY structural collapse deaths have been in buildings that are NOT trusses and they continue. Trusses seems to get the most attention but for those departments that take all construction seriously we do not see the deaths.

I would ask all of you to think about something much bigger. Did we complain when we went from lath and plaster to drywall. Clearly it was a tougher built construction and provided additional protection to getting "into the walls." Did we complain when floors went from tongue and grove flooring with sleepers and an Oak Floor over it to 1/2" sheathing? Did we put fire sprinklers in our OWN HOUSE? Come on guys and gals.

I will change Mr Naums statement just a little bit. ALL buildings require the same respect in incident command management and risk profiling when the fire is attacking the STRUCTURE. Brannigan said it is the difference between a "building fire" and a "structure fire." Our lives have changed and what I find amazing is that many firefighters that complain never seem to have a problem living in a truss house themselves or a house that needs massive remodeling and includes numerous voids and chases within walls that are "against the code." It is all about economics.

One more thing, If you think these types of trusses originally mentioned are against your code you better look a little closer. While you are searching the code also spend some time to see if anyone is properly "fire or draft stopping" buildings in your own community. Check the soffits in the kitchen and bath, under the bathtubs, in the plumbing chases, and know the methods used to separate the attached garage from the house. Oh there I go, I am ready to start talking about using the fire protection features that should be in place to help you fight the fire. Who would have thought our job has changed and we must be smarter.

Now I know some of you may want to rip on me but I want you to be serious with yourselves. When was the last time you took the crews out to look at construction? Do you know all buildings in your response area as good as your own? Do I need to remind you of the fires where our brothers and sisters "thought" it was a two story building or they did not realize there was damage from a previous fire and the floor collapsed, or they "thought" the fire was on the second floor when there were clear indications it had started in the basement. All construction when exposed to fire can collapse within minutes of when we arrive because we can never be sure of when it started. Do a 360, know your construction, ASK if everyone is out, preplan, preplan preplan and discuss. I think everyone of you meant well in your posts but we must realize how much smarter we must be. I know that in my 30 plus years I am seeing it much differently than in my "stuck on stupid" years.

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