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What is EMS's roll in the Incident Command
What is the roll of EMS in the Incident command? We have had a ongoing discussion at the station and surronding towns. I have my thoughts from my training but I would like some outside opionions
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Mike on
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EMS should either have command or work with fire in a unified command on any medical incident. They should be an advisor to command on the fire ground during fire incidents. When you consider the elements of public safety it is foolish to exclude one from the group on any incident. Fire, EMS and Law Enforcement should all be advising the incident commander from their perspective if they are not in command. We all specialize in helping the public and SHOULD perform our duty in the best interests of the public and not to inflate our ego. My $.02...Mike
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Permalink Reply by ILDisasterEMT on
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Can anyone think of why stand alone or non-fire EMS should not be on the fire ground? (Jeopardy Music). You dont put your medical asset where it is most likely to be disrupted or destroyed all together. Hence the reason that command is usually (ie when possible) away from the incident scene. Same reason why it makes no sense to have a SWAT teams medic at the head of the entry team. Pretty basic common sense...
Ive been wondering lately: Do people just pay no attention to ICS classes, are they not taking them? Whats the deal here. This is basic ICS 100/200 stuff
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Permalink Reply by Mary Ellen Shea on
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I hate to play snake in the grass here....but can we just discuss, for one brief shining moment, the difference between roll and role? It's silly, but it bugs the bejesus out of me...
Roll; as in tires, or ham and cheese on a....
Role: a part to play, as in a starring role or role model
Thanks---no harm no foul.
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Permalink Reply by Engineco913 on
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The problem with ICS is they made it available online which is good for most, but offers the chance for people to cheat. Too often I haer of answer keys being passed from person to person. If you can take an answer key and take the test online without reading ANY of the material what has truely been learned? The Feds should have made it random questions so no 2 tests had the same questions in the same order to ensure that if you took the classes as mandated, you should have learned something.
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If there is an incident that requires the presence, or actions of EMS, the EMS officer in charge (so long as they have suitable manpower) should be with the IC at the command post. His Medical personnel should be directed by the lead medic/cardiac/EMT (aka EMS operations) and should notify the EMS IC so they can ensure the IC can have a hand in the situation.
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Betz on
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Hey 913, I am with you. I might add that in my area with private EMS on scene with us, we pretty much just get the 2 on the rig, no real officer. The lead (or senior) medic works directly with IC, by face to face or radio. In a nutshell, they still play by the rules of the person in command, not doing their own thing and telling command how the EMS stuff in going to go. Obviously, Command gives significant latitude to the EMS leader to get the job done efficiently as he was directed. Sound good, or not so much?
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Permalink Reply by Derek Ery on
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Through my experience, there needs to be a synergy between Fire and EMS on scene. Almost like picturing a small unified incident command. In our area with the utilization of an ALS intercept to augment our BLS service, we have had great success with teamwork in that area in the past. In cases of rescue operations with extrication for example, The duties of the extrication fall under the fire side however, the senior EMS person(s) on the scene work with the fire side I.C. to monitor the patient's condition, and advise on interventions and possible steps to help in mitigating the situation. So there definately needs to be a lateral line drawn between the two, however, the ultimate authority shuld rest with the entity who presides over the juristicion.
Yes or No? What do you think Jeff?
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I agree. My take in our area has always been that the incident belongs to the agency who's call it is. I think it is completely inappropriate when a senior EMS person on an MVC tries to be in Command, and also be the senior ALS person. In that situation, somethings gotta give; Command efficiency or ALS care. Neither of those options is a good choice.
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In all reality how many times does the Incident revolve to the scope of being out of eyesite? Most MVA's the IC is within dead eye shot of the wreck, and most instructions can be dealt via mouth to the personnel working the call. In massive incidents, it is imperrative to have a EMS sector command to work alongside the IC. Private Ambulatory services are a special breed. They generally ride with the 2 personnel as you had mentioned, and their role on the scene is usually one where the senior medical personnel for that crew is the command of their crew, but also under the general advisement of the EMS sector command and the general IC. So long as everyone works together at the task at hand, and the mission accomplished with the pissing and moaning is kept off scene I can see it working just fine the way it is diagramed to work.
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Permalink Reply by Arkymedic on
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By now, every emergency services organization should have initiated some basic NIMS and ICS training. All personnel should have taken IS-700 (Intro to NIMS), ICS-100 (Intro to ICS) and supervisory personnel should have taken an additional course, ICS-200 (Basic ICS). These three courses will provide personnel with the basic tools to function within the ICS structure. Everyone should be familiar with responsibilities of the Incident Commander along with the Command and General Staff positions. Additionally, all personnel should understand their role as a Single Resource as well as a member of a Task Force and Strike Team, as these components are the basic elements of field response. An EMS unit responding to a medical call is an example of a Single Resource. Several EMS assets performing a specific function (like triage) would function as a Strike Team while mixed assets (an EMS unit along with a law enforcement officer and a fire department engine company) would be a Task Force. The person in charge of these organizations components is called a Leader. As the size of the operation grows, the ICS structure can be expanded to maintain the proper span of control. EMS can also function under logistics by being the onsite medical providers as well instead of being an operational resource.
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I agree with what you are saying, but is it the proper time for a pissing contest? Being grown up's we should have an element of control. Some folks are control freaks (aka it's my scene) and if it takes a simple rule of thumb as you have stated in your last to identify the IC, so be it
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I agree 913. Just an FYI, Derek and I are from the same area and have both seen this happen, so we kind of had a "mini-discussion" given things we have seen. For me, the large majority of the time it has been as we have spoken, but a couple didn't go as well. More than anything, we were kind of making sure we see it the same way.
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