The Social Network & Community JUST for Firefighters
What do you call them... ICS & NIMS Tanker vs. Tender Definitions... What's the difference?
Recently, while reading some of the FFN blogs, it appears that there is a flaw in our system(s) nationally when it comes time to define a vehicle that is used to bring water to the fire. The question posed here asks, "How do you define this type of vehicle? Is it a water truck, tanker or a tender?" Depending upon where you are located, these definitions may not match. So what's the difference? Does it really matter what we call these resource types? Are we all on the same page here? There is a difference... and it all has to do with whether you use USFS or NWCG ICS terminology or the NIMS terminology that does not include the word tender or tanker in the most recent online glossary... So, what do you call them?
Background Information:
The History of Incident Command System (ICS)
The concept of ICS was developed more than thirty years ago, in the aftermath of a devastating wildfire in California. During 13 days in 1970, 16 lives were lost, 700 structures were destroyed
and over one-half million acres burned. The overall cost and loss associated with these fires totaled $18 million per day. Although all of the responding agencies cooperated to the best of their ability, numerous problems with communication and coordination hampered their effectiveness. As a result, the Congress mandated that the U.S. Forest Service design a system that would "make a quantum jump in the capabilities of Southern California wildland fire protection agencies to effectively coordinate interagency action and to allocate suppression resources in dynamic, multiple-fire situations."
The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, the Governor's Office of Emergency Services; the Los Angeles, Ventura and Santa Barbara County Fire Departments; and the Los
Angeles City Fire Department joined with the U.S. Forest Service to develop the system. This system became known as FIRESCOPE (FIrefighting RESources of California Organized for Potential Emergencies).
In 1973, the first "FIRESCOPE Technical Team" was established to guide the research and development design. Two major components came out of this work, the ICS and the Multi-
Agency Coordination System (MACS). The FIRESCOPE ICS is primarily a command and control system delineating job responsibilities and organizational structure for the purpose of
managing day-to-day operations for all types of emergency incidents.
By the mid-seventies, the FIRESCOPE agencies had formally agreed upon on ICS common terminology and procedures and conducted limited field-testing of ICS. By 1980, parts of ICS had been used successfully on several major wildland and urban fire incidents. It was formally adopted by the Los Angeles Fire Department, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF), the Governor's Office of Emergency Services (OES), and endorsed by the State Board of Fire Services.
Three reference sources are quoted below that include both the USFS, NIMS and NWCG.
USFS Water Tender Definition: When water is required, water delivery is important. The typical water tender carries 1200 gallons of water to support the fire engines and crews. Water tenders even are used to fill water dropping helicopters when a lake or reservoir is not nearby.
NIMS Resource Typing
Tender, Foam (Firefighting Foam Tender)
The apparatus used to mix concentrate with water to make solution, pump, and mix air and solution to make foam, and transport and apply foam.
Tender, Fuel (Fuel Tender)
Any vehicle capable of supplying fuel to ground or airborne equipment.
Tender, Helicopter (Helicopter Tender)
A ground service vehicle capable of supplying fuel and support equipment to helicopters.
Water Truck (Tender)
A truck with a permanently mounted water tank with the capabilities of dispensing potable or nonpotable water. The dispensing is handled through gravity or pumped. For pumping action, the truck's engine or transmission is usually used to generate the requirement dispensing energy. Uses can range from delivering potable water to shelter locations, nonpotable form for irrigation, assisting in wildfire situations, dust control, compaction requirements, flushing of storm conveyance sanitary sewer lines, and washing areas of dirt, debris, and dust.
NWCG Definitions:
Air Tanker: Fixed-wing aircraft certified by FAA as being capable of transport and delivery of fire retardant solutions.
A DC-10 is seen above making a drop of fire retardant on the Zaca Fire in Santa Barbara County, CA. Normally, you don't see this large of an aircraft unless the threat is significant. If these planes do fly, all other aircraft in the area are evacuated both during and for sometime afterwards due to the dangerous vortexes of air that the DC-10 creates.
Air Tanker/Fixed-Wing Coordinator (ATCO): This ICS position is responsible for coordinating air tanker and fixed-wing operations over an incident and reports to the Air Tactical Group Supervisor.
Minimum Standards for Type 1-4 AIR TANKERS
Type 1 Tanker: 3,000 Gallons / C-130, P-3, DC-7
Type 2 Tanker: 1,800 Gallons / DC-4, SP2H, P2V
Type 3 Tanker: 600 Gallons / S-2
Type 4 Tanker: 100 Gallons / Thrush
Note: Don't know what they look like? Click here.
(Ref: NWCG* Handbook 3, January 1998, Appendix A)
*NATIONAL WILDFIRE COORDINATING GROUP
So... are we all calling these resources by the correct identifiers? It all depends on where you work and what standards you are following. But one thing for sure, if it carry's water then it's either a tender or a water truck. If it's flying in the air, it's always called a tanker which is the term used in aviation to described an aircraft that is used to refuel other aircraft in flight. We simply copied what the air force was using...
Stay safe and never stop learning!
Mike Schlags, Fire Captain
Santa Barbara, CA
mschlags@yahoo.com
.
Background Information:
The History of Incident Command System (ICS)
The concept of ICS was developed more than thirty years ago, in the aftermath of a devastating wildfire in California. During 13 days in 1970, 16 lives were lost, 700 structures were destroyed
and over one-half million acres burned. The overall cost and loss associated with these fires totaled $18 million per day. Although all of the responding agencies cooperated to the best of their ability, numerous problems with communication and coordination hampered their effectiveness. As a result, the Congress mandated that the U.S. Forest Service design a system that would "make a quantum jump in the capabilities of Southern California wildland fire protection agencies to effectively coordinate interagency action and to allocate suppression resources in dynamic, multiple-fire situations."
The California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, the Governor's Office of Emergency Services; the Los Angeles, Ventura and Santa Barbara County Fire Departments; and the Los
Angeles City Fire Department joined with the U.S. Forest Service to develop the system. This system became known as FIRESCOPE (FIrefighting RESources of California Organized for Potential Emergencies).
In 1973, the first "FIRESCOPE Technical Team" was established to guide the research and development design. Two major components came out of this work, the ICS and the Multi-
Agency Coordination System (MACS). The FIRESCOPE ICS is primarily a command and control system delineating job responsibilities and organizational structure for the purpose of
managing day-to-day operations for all types of emergency incidents.
By the mid-seventies, the FIRESCOPE agencies had formally agreed upon on ICS common terminology and procedures and conducted limited field-testing of ICS. By 1980, parts of ICS had been used successfully on several major wildland and urban fire incidents. It was formally adopted by the Los Angeles Fire Department, the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF), the Governor's Office of Emergency Services (OES), and endorsed by the State Board of Fire Services.
Three reference sources are quoted below that include both the USFS, NIMS and NWCG.
USFS Water Tender Definition: When water is required, water delivery is important. The typical water tender carries 1200 gallons of water to support the fire engines and crews. Water tenders even are used to fill water dropping helicopters when a lake or reservoir is not nearby.
NIMS Resource Typing
Tender, Foam (Firefighting Foam Tender)
The apparatus used to mix concentrate with water to make solution, pump, and mix air and solution to make foam, and transport and apply foam.
Tender, Fuel (Fuel Tender)
Any vehicle capable of supplying fuel to ground or airborne equipment.
Tender, Helicopter (Helicopter Tender)
A ground service vehicle capable of supplying fuel and support equipment to helicopters.
Water Truck (Tender)
A truck with a permanently mounted water tank with the capabilities of dispensing potable or nonpotable water. The dispensing is handled through gravity or pumped. For pumping action, the truck's engine or transmission is usually used to generate the requirement dispensing energy. Uses can range from delivering potable water to shelter locations, nonpotable form for irrigation, assisting in wildfire situations, dust control, compaction requirements, flushing of storm conveyance sanitary sewer lines, and washing areas of dirt, debris, and dust.
NWCG Definitions:
Air Tanker: Fixed-wing aircraft certified by FAA as being capable of transport and delivery of fire retardant solutions.
A DC-10 is seen above making a drop of fire retardant on the Zaca Fire in Santa Barbara County, CA. Normally, you don't see this large of an aircraft unless the threat is significant. If these planes do fly, all other aircraft in the area are evacuated both during and for sometime afterwards due to the dangerous vortexes of air that the DC-10 creates.
Air Tanker/Fixed-Wing Coordinator (ATCO): This ICS position is responsible for coordinating air tanker and fixed-wing operations over an incident and reports to the Air Tactical Group Supervisor.
Minimum Standards for Type 1-4 AIR TANKERS
Type 1 Tanker: 3,000 Gallons / C-130, P-3, DC-7
Type 2 Tanker: 1,800 Gallons / DC-4, SP2H, P2V
Type 3 Tanker: 600 Gallons / S-2
Type 4 Tanker: 100 Gallons / Thrush
Note: Don't know what they look like? Click here.
(Ref: NWCG* Handbook 3, January 1998, Appendix A)
*NATIONAL WILDFIRE COORDINATING GROUP
So... are we all calling these resources by the correct identifiers? It all depends on where you work and what standards you are following. But one thing for sure, if it carry's water then it's either a tender or a water truck. If it's flying in the air, it's always called a tanker which is the term used in aviation to described an aircraft that is used to refuel other aircraft in flight. We simply copied what the air force was using...
Stay safe and never stop learning!
Mike Schlags, Fire Captain
Santa Barbara, CA
mschlags@yahoo.com
.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Wes Anders on
-
I agree Bill our brush trucks, or urban interface units, or wildland trucks, or grass rigs... are all 1000 gallons so that actually puts then in more then one catagory also.
-
Permalink Reply by Brian Dumser on
-
Here in Chicagoland we used to use the term, "Tanker". Now our Tanker is called a Tender. That decision was made above my pay grade. I don't know what was wrong with saying, "Air Tanker" for an aircraft, and simply, "Tanker" for a ground based water carrying apparatus! This whole NIMS thing needs a little revamping in my opinion.
And Lutan is right also, how can we even think about an International Standard when we can't even come up with a National Standard for our own country?
Also around here we use ICS like it's a religeon, yet elsewhere there are F.D's that don't use it at all. So I think we've got a long way to go yet. Stay safe people!
-
Permalink Reply by Brandon Roark on
-
No no no no no...why confuse the issue...Man, whats with all these young whipper snappers these days. :)
Does it carry: water, men, hose, ladders its an engine company. water, drop tank, men its a tanker/tender. Men and BIG ladders then its a truck. Men and specialized equipment its a rescue/squad. Men, medical supplies, and free rides to the er, its a gut box/medic/ambulance/free ticket to not clean teh kitchen and recieve no sleep..
:)
Im just a fireman 30 years too late...thats my new motto!
-
Permalink Reply by Mike Schlags (Captain Busy) Retd on
-
You know Brian and everyone else reading this, I think the biggest difference here is in how we use these resources. New Hampshire for example simply does not have 10,000 acre wildland urban interface fires, but yet it is unfortunately common in the western USA. Then again we only have a couple of buildings in my county that go up to 9 stories. That's it for high rise here.
We are all different and have adapted to our own particular needs. As I mentioned in the beginning of this post, all that really matters here is that the person on the other end of the phone that's taking your resource order request understands what you are talking about.
Regarding ICS vs. NIMS, a lot of people read this, and maybe, just maybe the right person might put two and two together to address some of these inconsistencies that have been identified.
What I have learned from this post personally is that not everyone uses ICS in the USA. I had assumed that it was a national standard. We use it out of necessity.
Coordinating massive amounts of mutual aid for example, and incident commanders making requests for specific types of resources dictate that basic standards be developed.
For those fire departments out there that are not using the ICS system, they either don't get involved in emergency response where there is potential for the incident to grow or they are simply not adequately informed about what ICS is all about...
So what's wrong with calling a tender a water tanker and an aircraft an air tanker? I think this makes more sense... and they both have tanks. Tanks a lot! Mike
-
-
Ya hey dere! Down here too on some F.D's.
-
Permalink Reply by T.J. on
-
I dont know why Mike but we call our tenders tankers, but we're trying to change that over, especially when I talk on here, because who knows what your talking about if your usng slang or something.
-
Permalink Reply by Ashleigh on
-
You know I'm kind of embarrassed about it, but I think everyone should know how silly it is around here. The entire county here now has to call them Tenders instead of Tankers because that's what the highest ranked chief around here wanted. So now there is no distinction between the different types of trucks, if they have a big water tank on the back, and they're not a quint, engine, or grass rig, then they're a tender. I think we have some major issues around here, because whenever this chief, who really has no control over any dept. except for the major city in this area, has everyone asking how high he wants them to jump. Nobody can even do flourescent green trucks anymore because he prefers red. But anywho I'm gettin' off subject, sorry!
-
Permalink Reply by lutan1 on
-
Mike, here's a link to the CFA's range of trucks: http://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/equip/trucks.htm
-
Permalink Reply by Damon Dyer on
-
Now thats a tanker !!
-
-
A tender company ?? lol
-
Permalink Reply by Jay Nicholson on
-
What I have learned from this post personally is that not everyone uses ICS in the USA. I had assumed that it was a national standard. We use it out of necessity.
Coordinating massive amounts of mutual aid for example, and incident commanders making requests for specific types of resources dictate that basic standards be developed.
New Hampshire for example simply does not have 10,000 acre wildland urban interface fires, but yet it is unfortunately common in the western USA
Good points. Last year I had a chance to talk to a crew from Arizona down here helping us out. I hope we got the piece of equipment that was ordered from out-of -state. since it was a type III engine I now assume it was. But I can see were this could be a huge problem just from county to county let alone state to state. Our brush trucks are type III engines. Your brush truck could be a PU truck with a light bar, red line and a booster pump with a 200 gal water tank.
BTW great guys from AZ. But blue lights on fire trucks just looks ugly
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Firefighter Nation WebChief.
Powered by
