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PPE on Vehicle Accidents
I was just wondering what peoples thoughts/department SOG's were on wearing bunker gear, ambulance crew/fire crew, on the scene of vehicle accidents. In my department's SOG's it states "Bunker gear is required for personal injury accidents", yet there are some who refuse to wear it when they respond on the squad(ambulance) because they have reflective vests or jackets. Me personally I wear my bunker gear and a refective vest no matter what truck I respond in.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony P on
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Do you mean I should be wearing both my wildfire AND my structural gear when I go to a job?
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Permalink Reply by Ben Waller on
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Unless specifically required by state law, worker's comp claims cannot be denied, even if proper PPE was not worn.
Bunker pants are not required for directing traffic. If that were the case, police officers and construction workers would have to wear bunker pants in order to direct traffic. This is obviously not the case.
Check your state's worker's comp laws for the facts that apply where you work or volunteer.
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...and your bloodborne pathogens gear, and a Hazmat Level A suit, and a life jacket, and a full-body harness hooked to a fall-arrest system...and...a squire to dress you in your armor and winch you up on your horse.
I'm not advocating disregarding PPE on vehicle accidents, but heat stress kills firefighters. Turnout gear is the #1 cause of heat stress in most parts of the U.S., especially in the summer. Extrication gear or a wildland jacket with a hi-viz traffic vest makes a lot more sense than a turnout coat in those conditions.
How many firefighters die from heat stress - according to the NFPA, usually around 50% of the LODDs per year are due to heat-stress-induced medical conditions.
How many firefighters die from glass cuts or metal punctures while working wrecks? I haven't seen a single documented case of this. Once again, I'm not advocating doing things that injure firefighters, but there are other options than a turnout coat to prevent glass and metal wounds...options that don't carry a high risk of heat stress.
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I've seen/heard a few people mentioning the protection that structural PPE can give from wounding. Two in my Brigade have brought this up - saying that the Kevlar fibre used will give real protection from penetrating wounds. This intrigues me - they think that Kevlar is a magic word for protection? I really don't see that the presence of Kevlar is some magic shield, the way it is used in the fibres of PPE is to me very different to the way it's used in body armour! I think a ballistic vest relies on multiple layers to 'slow' a projectile or blade, the 'incoming' item isn't simply repelled like water from a raincoat.
With the outer shell of structural PPE (the layer with the Kevlar) being a dense, tightly woven fabric, I can see it giving more protection than, say, a t-shirt. But a magic stop-all? No. No more so than the thick, lined, woollen structural jackets we currently wear. Or the shirts that our paramedics wear when at an MVA (of course they also wear traffic vests, but they wouldn't stop much either)! This is just an opinion of course, I'm willing to be proven wrong if someone can point me towards the evidence. I never mind being proven wrong, I love learning.
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Permalink Reply by Rob on
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Bunker gear during extrication operations is not just for reflective. You are wearing it because you are cutting metal around flammable material and if there is a spark it could ignite(also why NFPA states that a fire Truck has to be there with a 1 1/2 charged line at least while extrication operation are in progress). therefore the bunkers would also be fire protection, along with protection against sharp edges.
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Permalink Reply by Jeremy Bolster on
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I agreee that on accidents you should wear your bunker gear. We are suppose to, but we have certain firefighters who just refuse to wear it. Luckily for them I am not in charge, because they would be off my scene if they were not wearing it. Then again, maybe that is why I am not an office. i might rock too many boats about doing what is proper. And older members don't like to give into a younger member no matter what the position held is.
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Permalink Reply by Shareef Abdu Nur on
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My FD hasn't jumped onboard with the reflective vests just yet, but how many videos do we need to see and how many reports do we need to read in order to take our PPE serioulsy? I can think of at least 20 good reasons to wear yor PPE but I can not for the life of me think of 1 good reason why not to. My PPE is the cornerstone of my safety in almost every job related scenario, especially MVA's. I do not wear my PPE because I am ordered to by my Chief or because I am pressured to by my peers. I wear my PPE because I love my family and they are why I protect myself. As a professional, even if I am on the ambulance, my PPE goes with me. From shards of broken glass, to sharp edges of posts that have been cut, to leaking gasoline or hydraujlic fluid, or even just to protect me from my brothers as they cut the car from around me and the victim, I wear my PPE. How many brothers have been injured or killed due to no PPE? If I do not wear mine than it is all in vain.
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Permalink Reply by Phil on
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yeah, I dont get it, do you guys just go to the scene?... How are you even allowed on the truck/engine without turn out gear....when i get to the station, we all get into the vehicle that the incident calls for, and that vehicle will not move untill everyone is geared up and buckled up... I guess I dont even know anything else. I really couldnt imagine going to the scene without going to the firehouse first.
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Permalink Reply by Cody on
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Our SOG's state that bunker gear should be worn at all times on a fire scene and on vehicle accidents a reflective vest is to be worn as well. The only exciption is on medical calls and I agree 100% with it.
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I think that all bunker gear should be worn at accidents. You never know what will happen at the accident. Blood, fire and punctures can be reason to wear it. We also wear reflective vests we wear at accidents, extra protection. We have people who don't wear it even though we are suppose to. I guess you can't teach the old dogs new tricks or they are just stubborn!
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Permalink Reply by PA Firefighter on
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We hand it out for a reason. Just wear it.
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