Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Shayna Orsen on July 30, 2007 at 7:22pm

I wish I could say my fight was so rewarding. I live in the "Good Ol Boy" fire service. And I'm sorry to say I had to give up my fight because it was affecting my personal relationships and my professional career. I still volunteer, though. I can never give it up.

Permalink Reply by Amy on August 3, 2007 at 7:58am

Well about 2 years ago I decided to join the fire dept. here in town and was considering which of the 5 stations I would join. One night a guy told me I shouldn't join. When I asked him why he told me the firehall is no place for a girl. I looked him square in the eyes and said.. Thank you. When he asked why I said, "for giving me the inspiration to prove you wrong and be 100x's the firefighter you are." Later that night I called one of my closest friends and got the app. for his station. He started asking me questions like will you do training, come to meetings, fundraisers, etc. He called me a couple weeks later and said I was in and was starting my 6 months of probationary membership. I started a few classes, went to calls to work on the air unit, and of course repack hose. Got drilled on where things were on the engine, but not to any huge degree seeing as though we were getting a new one. Two years later, I'm now have essentials up to exterior firefighter (hoping to get interior soon.), Haz-Mat awareness, etc. But I also am cert. through the department of health as a basic vehicle rescue technician (which is more than I can say for the guy who told me it's no place for a girl.. and he runs with the rescue company.) I'm a trustee at the station as well. There are times when I still think that the guys don't give me credit for the things I am able to do, and since there have been other females at this station it bothers me... but I'm still going strong. Still training, still learning... One day this town will see a female chief!! haha

Permalink Reply by Dan Hoey on August 3, 2007 at 8:50am

Hi I don't mean to butt into your world I have no idea of the struggles you have to face. I know the fire can be a tough spot for a women and I have only a simple thought for all of you. I have been on both sides of this issue, I was a career Fire fighter and EMS provider and also a volunteer and I have worked with incredible women who have earned my respect and I would walk through any door with not because they are female but because they are good at what they do. I have also watched other be promoted and given special treatment not because they are good but because they are female. One of the biggest issues you all face are some of your own Women who use being a female to get things in this service or those who well for lack of a better term sleep their why through a house. I feel bad for all of you who try and work so hard because those other are your biggest problem.
I have nothing but respect for all of you that do it the right way!
Dan

Permalink Reply by Amy on August 5, 2007 at 6:33pm

You are absolutely right. It is those kinds a women who ruin the credibility of the rest of us. It's the same in the fire house as it is in any other aspect of life. On the one hand a women can work her @ss off to get a promotion, and on the other another woman will sleep with the boss. More times than not it's the woman that slept with the boss who gets what she wants and the hard worker gets nothing for everything she has done. It's a shame that this is what happens, but in the end you find out who truly knows what's going on and who just worked what she has to get to where she is. I will never put myself on that level. It's degrading. I'd rather lose a job or position than do that and lose my self respect.

Permalink Reply by Debi on August 6, 2007 at 9:57am

Well I am glad to hear stories! I know we all (yes even the guys) have our moments of being under "the gun". It is good to hear how we have overcome and proved ourselves in this world.

Dan,
I do appreciate your input, and I will admit there are "those women" out there. I was seen as one of "those women" because my husband was at one point Captain/Training Officer and then Asst Chief. He put me through more stuff than the guys and used me as an example time and time again to show the guys "if she can do it, you better be able to". I was pushed harder than anyone else simply because my Husband was an Officer and he didn't want the guys to see me as one of "those women" he wanted them to accept me and respect me. I hated it at the time and oh boy was it tough on us, but now I understand why, and I am greatful. One ofthe guys walked up to my husband the other day and told him how much I was missed and respected and wanted to know when I was comming back. It made both of us feel good. I earned my respect through hard work and lots and lots of sweat both training and fighting fire.

Permalink Reply by Kristy Oxholm on August 7, 2007 at 10:11am

I just concentrate on doing my job and try not to get into the male/female thing... At one time I was interviewed by a newspaper about some hazardous materials issues. During the interview I was asked if it was difficult being a woman in the fire service in general and hazmat in particular. Since the topics being covered in the article were so important (it was before we had a state response team and we were trying to get that set up) I asked that the article not have anything mentioned about it. Sometimes I think we do ourselves a disservice by trying to make ourselves "different". I come to the station, go to training, go to calls and do my job. Certainly there are things that are tougher for us, but there are also things that are easier...

As far as the perception that women get preferable treatment because their husband/boyfriend is an officer is sometimes true. It is also true that sometimes males get preferable treatment because their father/brother/etc is an officer. While it is not always possible, especially in small departments, I think it is best not to have relatives hold officers positions together. Even when there is no preference shown it just gives people something to be suspicious about.

I've been a firefighter for almost 22 years and had 10 years in EMS before that. I think that during this time the discrimination factor has diminished considerably. I know that it still exists in places, but I think that it is getting to be less and less all the time. I think the best way we can combat it is to do our jobs, and to admit when there are things that we are not good at. EVERYONE on a department has their strengths and weaknesses. I would much rather people be up front about what they are not good at as opposed to telling me when we are in the middle of an incident!

Permalink Reply by CJ on August 12, 2007 at 6:06pm

In the three years I've been involved with the fire service, there have been only a handful of times where my gender has been brought up in a negative way. I've been pretty fortunate that most of the guys I work with have treated me as one of the guys. Ya, they've teased me and called me princess but who cares? Most of them have told me or told others that if they got to choose who would go in a fire with them, they'd want me backing them up. If someone thinks that I'm incapable because I'm female, then let them think that. It doesn't make me any less of a fire fighter or EMT. It just shows their incompetence.

Now on a different note... I do love to make the guys mad so I make sure to buy really girly things for what I keep at the station. For example: my sheets and blanket are pink with flowers. This is also a good way of making sure people won't use your stuff. And if they do, you get to laugh at them for snuggling up with a pink blanket. =)


Everyone stay safe out there!

Permalink Reply by LadyChaplain on August 13, 2007 at 10:16pm

Well, looking back on my first year of volunteer fire service as a female, I can say that I have very mixed emotions about the whole experience.

When I first started, I was the subject of some mild sexual harassment by one member, but after another more senior member witnessed it, it stopped entirely and I made my way into the group of younger guys. We were pretty much inseperable. They didn't necessarily treat me as a rookie. They treated me as an equal and I learned a lot. They treated me to the best birthday ever and constantly told me how I was a great girl to have in the company (with the exception of that one member, after my birthday he left me a text message telling me how he was ready for me to come to his house and have sex with him. he apologized the next day and i told him never to do it again or else it would be reported. he agreed). Christmas came around and things were still good. I really felt like I had made it in the company, despite my true rookie status and weeks of training ahead. As a rookie I was even elected to be my company's chaplain!

New Year's Eve brought my downfall. All of the younger guys went to a party, to which I was invited, but opted not to attend because I was under the weather. I wake up in the middle of the night to grab a bottle of water and notice that there was a voicemail on my cell from another member (the same member that gave me grief when I first started). I didn't think much of it, so I decided to check it before going back to bed. To my disgust he had left a voicemail stating how he'd like to have sex with me and would also perform acts of sodomy with me.... the same member who agreed to never leave me a sexually explicit message after the birthday run in. I sat on the voicemail for a few days... I saw him several times and made a personal pact that if he even said hi to me or talked to me, I would discuss it with him and not bring it to the attention of the higher ups. Alas he didnt (despite my several efforts), and I pulled my copy of the district sexual harassment policy and followed the instructions to a T.

The next 24 hours after I reported it were the worst of my firefighting career. I had gone from the favorite, to the girl that everyone hated. I was treated like crap at calls, people didn't talk to me, and people accused me of "ruining" that firefighters life. Once all of the diplomatic issues were said and done, punishment was handed down and life went on... it was a rollercoaster ride. There would be days when people would talk to me, days when they would pretend like I didn't exist. There would be calls where they had my back, and others where they would try to get me to falter so they would have something to bring against me for what I did to "them".

I found a new friendship and bond with the older, more senior members of my company. Under their constant counsel, I was able to trudge forth with my training (NYS FF1). In June of 07, almost a year after my induction to the company, I graduated from my FF1 class at the top and in July of 07 was admitted as a full member of my company.

Despite the many efforts of the younger guys to get me to quit, get me to fall, I made it... and I made it with class. I proved to myself and to everyone else that I didn't need their support to be a good firefighter.

There are times when I question how I made it this far... and I would say that it was the motivation of their negative attitudes that helped me get through it. Based upon my education alone, I am at a huge advantage, and took the attitude for myself that knowledge is power and that would be my key to respect - whether it comes on a personal or professional level. I know that I still may be the most hated person in the eyes of that young group of guys, but as long as I still have my personal respect and my officers see my passion and heart that's all that matters.

Permalink Reply by Kristy Oxholm on August 15, 2007 at 11:05am

Hey there. Keep your chin up. You may find that eventually some of the younger guys come around to being in your corner. My guess is that some of them are going along with the jerk just because it is the "macho" thing to do. I have found that what goes around comes around (on its own)!

I have found through the years that there is a certain amount of banter that goes back and forth (yes I give as much as I take). I do set limits and when someone crosses them (such as the time at drill when one of the guys was discussing "intimate" details about what he and his girlfriend did the night before) I make it very clear right away. "OK that's enough. I do not want to, nor will I, listen to that kind of discussion". I've only had to do that twice. Both times I had other members (male) come up to me and thank me for putting a stop to inappropriate talk. They were just as uncomfortable as I was but didn't want to say anything for fear of being shunned.

Permalink Reply by Kristy Oxholm on August 15, 2007 at 11:09am

I know what you mean. I am an instructor for the state fire academy. They ship us materials in plastic boxes that are sealed. I got myself a pink rhinestone encrusted multi-tool (kind of like a cheap leatherman) to clip the seals with. The other instructors all thought it was hysterical and just too "girly" for them. I pointed out that I would not have to worry about one of them "accidentally" taking it! They have stooped to asking to borrow it on occasion though!

Permalink Reply by Sara Harig on August 17, 2007 at 12:50am

The sexual issue is tough. I was the first female to ever be on my department. I am on a small department in a small town, and rumors fly. According to many people in the community, I had slept with the whole department. I started hearing this about a week after I joined. The younger members, that have joined since I have, are very rude to me. I often wonder if it's because of rumors or if it's because I'm female and they have a hard time with that. It seems like they try to put me in positions thinking I'll screw up. I was told by a lot of the guys that I wouldn't last a year, hear I'm almost at 3. I don't think a lot of them realize that I grew up with a fire department. My dad will be retiring in a couple years. My heart is in it and have have the passion, but is it wrong of me to want to prove to the guys that I can do better than them. When I first started I never felt I had to prove myself, now I feel like I do.

Permalink Reply by Lisa on August 18, 2007 at 1:18pm

I'm so very familiar with what all of you are saying. I have been in my small volunteer department for almost six years. There had been a few women in the department before me, but they were mostly just EMS and didn't do much fire related. When I joined, my boyfriend had been a member for two years. I think they all thought I was joining just because of him. I have had to put up with some that think it's no place for a girl, but I have also had some take me under their wing and teach me. I found that by approaching those that had been in for several years and asking them questions, they accepted that I was there to do more than look pretty. Now I find the Chief putting me on lines with the new guys because I keep a level, alert head. I've also taken a lot of classes to learn as much as I can. Sometimes these are the hardest part of all. At least most of the guys in my own department let me get in on the "good stuff" of training because they know me. Guys from other departments tend to walk over me because they don't know any better. The biggest drawback I have is that I'm small. Sometimes it takes a larger person to do the job and I feel inadequate, but I try to be smart and know my limits. I get teased sometimes about those problems. There were a couple of women that joined after me, but they still haven't done much but take up space. Around the station, I know that guys will be guys and they are pretty good about their discussions, but occasionally I can tell what direction its going in so I just leave the room. I know that saying I kind of intruded on their world sounds sexist, but for so many years it was and we have to give them time to adjust. We'll never win them all over, but we're definitely headed in the right direction.

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